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[sc:astop]Cammien Ray and Martin the Flash discuss the hashtag girl power episode as all the heroes, villains, antiheroes, and foils are all ladies, in this no-boys-allowed week of Arrow. Join us! (girls only)
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[sc:as]
In regards to the news of Emily leaving at the end of this season…
I definitely understand some asking “Why? There’s only 10 episodes left!” as 1) it is only 10 so why not stick it out at this point, 2) it’s going to be weird not having yet another original in the season (true she may be in the series final but basically a season without Felicity doesn’t sound fun) and 3) Felicity is one of (for some) the best characters still on so it’s going to be super sad to see her not in the final run but on the flip side if her exit is well done and fits the story then it’s better for her to go that way and be in the series final maybe (the cabin birth scene in the woods maybe as she and Oliver’s final shot or them together saying “I love you” and Oliver takes Mia and the final shot is him holding her to do the whole legacy thing but also end on Olicity then Oliver which are big parts of the series?) then having nothing to do really…still it’s going to be sad not seeing Felicity each week!
I still remember the exact moment I personally feel for Felicity Megan Smoak, it was in the Legends pilot crossover event and it was the scene where she told Oliver to stop lying to her in regards to William – “Just to be clear don’t care that you have a child; I can’t believe you have a child you didn’t tell me about but what I care about is the fact you lied to me just now”. That whole scene from the moment he sees her outside of the house to the moment she walks off was just great and I LOVED seeing her stand up to him, at that point it had been a while since I saw a realistic moment like that on the network (“Charmed” seasons 1-4 was the last time I felt a moment was grounded) and it was just so well done by both Stephen and Emily but she especially stood out to me because that really was her dialogue moment and honestly I did phase out Oliver because he was very much “let me mansplain without listening to you first” and I’m not crazy about those characters. Emily, and the writers of that scene, did such an amazing job that honestly until Dinah showed she was the reason I kept tuning into “Arrow” each week because I wanted to see what this blonde badass did next and if this was an every week thing from her character or a one off and she’d sadly go back to just a love interest the next week. She stayed good overall I’d say so that was a treat to see. I definitely have to thank Emily for helping to make Felicity so watch worthy because without her I wouldn’t have gone back and watched older episodes to see more of Felicity before this which means I wouldn’t know about the awesome cinnamon roll as they say named Nyssa Al Ghul and I just can’t think about CW superhero shows now without having Nyssa on a favorites list so thank you Emily Bett Rickards! 🙂
Felicity was often times the only humor on this otherwise dark series and carrying that load solo without being over the top isn’t easy so that’s another reason I’m bummed she won’t be in the final season – I know “Arrow” is the dark show but there’s a difference in being dark and being broody.
Felicity was the center of one of the greatest plots in a superhero show, that being her paralyzed arc in S4, which I know we all wanted more of because it was so well done so I thank you to Emily for that performance as her work is solidly 50% of why that plot is so memorable I feel (the other 50% of course being how unique it was as many superhero shows have injuries fade after an episode or two your the plot is wrapped up faster so the fact this went on even as long as it did was so refreshing).
Nyssa may be my “Arrow” love now but I will never forget Felicity as my first; thank you writers and Emily for this awesome character on the show!
In regards to the episode itself…
Note: this portion was written after seeing the episode live.
Burn this f*cking episode down! ???
This might be the most insulting thing to happen to Laurel Lance since they Padme’d her essentially in season four and it is certainly the most insulting thing they ever did to Black Siren!
I have SO MANY problems with this episode so let’s just start listing them off shall we…
1. OH F*CK NO, how dare you writers give Black Siren Laurel Lance’s Canary suit! I guess it fits your theme though since you’ve been obsessed with making them interchangeable since Black Siren stepped foot on screen last season. Who cares about individuality right? Who cares that real Laurel probably wouldn’t want her to have it at that stage because she hadn’t earned it; give her a Canary Junior pin sure but the suit NO. If you want to give it to a killer who redeemed their self let her her actual sister have it!
2. What was the point of all this? Seriously; someone please explain to me why this plot had to be done? Oh because you screwed up before by killing Laurel in season four instead of letting her retire so she could come back this season and do this plot organically? Here’s an idea: YOU NEVER SHOULD HAVE KILLED HER OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE! You wiped out an amazing villain just to do a plot you’ve done before do you realize that?! “Arrow” has never been high on the great villains count and then they get this gift of Black Siren where you can do this great long con plot but instead they say “No thank you we have to keep saying sorry for killing Laurel instead”….YOU CAN NEVER MAKE UP FOR THAT – the damage was done and taking Black Siren from us to try and do that just makes us angry all over again! At least it clearly does me.
I don’t know how she feels about it but I feel for Katie Cassidy so much – they write her out of the series in the worst way possible and then give her this awesome character when they convince her to come back then they take it from her just to do a plot they could have done with her before…if she’s not raging I will rage on her behalf. She may not care because it’s money either way from them but just the treatment of the character I do wonder if it annoyed her some. True she got to play a bad guy, an anti hero, and a hero all in one season so it might not be that bad acting wise but just the character progression is said when you think about the great scenes Black Siren could have had if they kept her evil. ?
3. This feels like an okay to male pressure and I don’t like it. I get some may not see the issues with what Quentin did but I’m just leave it here from my POV – the dude forced his dead child’s personality onto a woman he didn’t know and the show wants to act like that’s okay. IT’S NOT OKAY! Black Siren IS NOT Laurel Lance from Earth 1; yes biologically they are the same but experience wise they aren’t and to say she’d be swayed by Quentin’s harassment is insulting to her as a person but again clearly her individualism doesn’t matter as it’s all about what Quentin wanted.
I get the dude was sad and wanted his kid back, I don’t have a problem with him trying to bring her back as it worked for his character but it’s also really toxic behavior to have that push work because again BLACK SIREN IS NOT HIS DAUGHTER!!! The constant push to say “Quentin thought better of you” should mean nothing to her as he is NOT her dad and thus she owes him and the others nothing. It’s their nature as heroes to help even bad guys but as a bad guy who enjoyed killing it was Siren’s nature not pay them back for that kindness and do not try to tell me she didn’t enjoy being a bad guy – she murdered Vince without care and tried to kill Diaz without the same care, it’s only when they started pushing this bull redemption that she even said sorry a little.
4. It is so frustrating to watch a great villain go down in the name of a crap plot.
5. I know this will just be me but seeing Sara made me angry so I couldn’t enjoy Caity’s appearance this week, I have LOT issues with Sara currently; #AvaIsNOTSarasOnlyChanceAtHappiness!
6. Siren was never a Canary so the title also feels insulting to the individualism of Laurel and Siren.
I’m just so disappointed with this all…it really makes me not want to watch the rest of the season until the season finale/series final for some because at least that will have Felicity and she was good this episode.
To be fair to the writers there were some good moments in this episode it’s just too bad they spit on two of them with that ending.
I appreciated Dinah championing the reasons Black Siren was evil and why not redeeming her made sense but that fell about because they redeemed her because Quentin forced his will on her and Felicity was nice essentially.
They had the great line of “Forget Quentin. Nobody cares about him! He just wanted his daughter back.” but that didn’t mean sh*t at the end of the day because again he got what he wanted because she became Laurel when all was said and done. Heck the only thing missing was Sara hugging her and saying she’d come visit sometime to make the reunion complete.
Emily per usual killed Felicity stuff and Katie acted her little heart out in this rollercoaster they gave her and Juliana was good as Dinah too but I just can’t really get excited about their stuff because I’m SO disappointed in how this ended. Not only did we lose original Laurel to a stupid action but now we lost Black Siren to a “What?” plot; “Arrow” really could have used her too to boost their good villain count but apparently making everyone good even if they aren’t on the main squad is more important for the final run than a memorable plot that gives a lasting good memory of the series. At the very least they could have kept Laurel, I’m going to break down and call her that now because what does it matter right a Laurel is a Laurel that’s played by the same person, on the show and kept ticking people off because why even start all of this if you’re just going to have her go back to Earth 2 in the end?
Speaking of traveling, number 7 issue – how is Laurel getting home? I thought Barry had to give you a remote to activate portals to get you places; did Laurel steal one of those? Is Barry just going to help her because she asked and she’s a good guy now? Why not she’s a good guy now so just let whatever she did to you go and do as she asks because Quentin said she’s Laurel. ?
I’m slightly sorry for the language but I’m just that much enraged over this even though I realize I shouldn’t be because Flash tried to warn me this was going to end up screwing what I cared about over still I kept hoping they’d let her stay an anti hero at least but no they couldn’t even do that middle ground.
#Defeated. Again I appreciate the actors’ work but this episode just really hurt me so I don’t know how much care I’ll have to watch the final episodes. Again honestly I’ll probably watch the season finale for Felicity but outside of that I feel if I watched episodes currently I’d rage watch them at this point because I’m so upset over this and this I couldn’t fairly react to them the way the writers want; this all is coming from someone who wasn’t big on Laurel so I can’t even imagine how her fans are feeling currently seeing her suit be parted out and passed on…it was one thing with Dinah (who thinking about it now Quentin also told them to give a chance so I guess this is a nod to his word is Canary law; I realize that may be bitter but I can’t help it I really disliked how they handled his influence on the Black Siren plot) because she’s a teammate but Laurel-2 getting it because she did a little good, Sara said kind of did she expect a cookie for doing a little good well she just a brownie more so so I guess she was right to feel like she was due for a little work.
I get I’m being super harsh possibly but I can’t help it as I just wanted so much more for Black Siren and Laurel’s memory (let’s not forget they just gave away her identity to a killer instead of saying she was from another Earth and taking about breaches in Central City as evidence – yeah it was to protect Oliver’s identity but that got outted anyways so again what was the long term point of protecting Siren); maybe Laurel would be okay with being interchanged basically but I just can’t get excited by it.
End of live rage comments; on to the regularly scheduled podcast comments now.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CammienRay/status/1117957377339346944 – same Cammie! 🙂
Beth said in a recent interview that Katie will still be on the series so again I ask why did they have to make Siren a good guy? Could she have not have stayed an anti hero AT THE LEAST? Or heck push this to later so she’s the season bad next season; I just don’t get the full redemption plot for Black Siren and never will.
Emily will always be Felicity to me first and foremost. 🙂
I did enjoy Mia saying “pass” to the Canary pin. 🙂
Katrina killed it at ClexaCon and I loved it! 😀
My favorite part was when they said Quentin just wanted his daughter back but sadly they ruined that great fact by giving him his daughter back basically. 🙁 Spoiler alert in case you couldn’t tell already – I’m going to be bitter and and salty throughout this blog.
Siren was awesome Flash, it’s just too bad the writers didn’t agree and decided to replace her with Laurel. 🙁 #Bitter! Also agree Flash Dinah V Felicity at the station was great…again though it goes to crap because of the redemption. #Sad.
“If I can get a Dinah clip in here I will.” – I support your trying Flash! 🙂
“She has never used that on Legends; where has it been?!” – ha, exactly Flash. 🙂
Siren isn’t in the future, Laurel is…Siren died a disrespectful death this episode. Also chalk up another horrible wig because just no; that was like future Renee level bad! Shadow Thief was new for the episode.
Mia won’t be a Canary as her idea is Oliver like, she’s not really a team player to join the Canaries.
I will never accept that bullcrap redemption plot!
I don’t mind there being a team of Canaries personally I just felt it burned a future episode though because it was such a shift from what we last saw to this it felt out of place to me; had Dinah talked more about it through the future scenes it might be one thing but here it feels shoehorned in for time and is just another reason I don’t like this episode.
I don’t understand the use of Birds Of Prey in this episode because they’re not – a group of Canaries does not a BOP make; the BOP is a mix of different women with different mantles not the same one and Felicity basically so again promotion wise this was a bust for me. Had Huntress been in it or Sin or someone else like say Thea then I would get it but the Canaries plus Felicity no. I get it’s tempting to call an all female episode a BOP episode but this was not as again they were Canaries and Felicity not Felicity standing in for Barbara, the Canaries, and Mia as an Artemis type at least unless you’re going by the Chuck Dixon era (Barbara-Dinah team up era where as Gail Simone is Babs, Dinah and Helena) in which case I get it but they needed to be more clear Felicity was “Oracle” instead of being more field based.
I’d love it if Sara on Earth 2 was pregnant with a Nyssara baby but I won’t hold my breath.
Maybe Laurel back in the future teases a merger between the worlds like some fans are posing when the crossover happens?
I definitely agree Kate, it’s always hard to get why Dinah would stay with Oliver in the comics given all the cheating so on the show it felt the same even more so because he cheated with her sister. I will forever love Cammie’s comment about how Laurel has every right to want to murder Oliver in an alley over that. Ha.
I really like these fan nods to Emily’s impact on the series. 🙂