30 Comments

1. 

   Montefescu on September 24, 2020 at 1:23 pm

   It is sometimes necessary to be an optimist, and it is sometimes necessary to be a realist.

   Mutually agreed decisions to end a production due to personal reasons have all kind of industry examples.

   To cite a real and recent example, we have Batwoman and Ruby Rose. It was a quite real reason that involved personal health and professional actor and series runners reasons that created a parting of the ways.

   =========================================================

   The problem is that I have tracked and commented upon the season five trajectory *(See previous aftershow.) of the Supergirl show.

   =========================================================

   The summary of what I wrote if one wants the short version, the writing in season four and five was very uneven. I knew where a major problem was and I am glad that the “problem” will no longer will be there to ruin my enjoyment of the troupe’s work, the crew’s work and their genuine love for each other and the show. The “Do you want fries with that?” trajectory the “problem” is on; was to be expected and thoroughly deserved.

   As is well known, I am a metrics type of guy, so I watch the numbers and I look at the graphs. The season four numbers varied between 1.7 to 1.0 million viewers in first, second, and third view. That was a warning to me.

   Season five numbers came in and I was able to look at them. 700,000 first view through. Yes… an average of 700,000 viewers. That is a hard fall off. The breakeven for advertiser dollars and Net-Flix pick-up is about 2 million.

   Why the 50% drop in viewer numbers between season 4 and 5? I refer one to the previous “Aftershow” discussions” and what was very frankly discussed as to the pluses and minuses is covered.

   I would like to say that the story development was not the problem or the execution of the plots was not the reason. But… it always lives and dies in the word processor. If the writing is no good, then there is nothing upon which talented actors, director or crew can do.

   Nothing.

   You have no-one at whom to look but the writers: one in particular.

   ===============================================

   Cougars Comment Corner.

   Bendis’s Fourboot Legion (as I call it.) is an example of writing that would require a Master’s thesis as to why Bendis SHOULD NOT WRITE teenagers as characters. I do not have time for 80 pages. SO I summarize;

   [b]My take, as Brian Bendis ends his Action and Superman runs. No word yet if the Legion of Superheroes has been axed, but I would not be surprised as the numbers on that book are not too good, either.

   I actually like Bendis for what he does well, which is what I call “street level” or low grade, or C level superhero action stories. He was and is always best at writing a single “damaged adult character” point of view. When he tries teenage (*Witness Naomi.) ensemble (Young Justice, LOSH.), space opera, or cosmic level stories (Action and Superman respectively.), he loses contact with his core writing strengths.

   He was at his best at Marvel when he deconstructed Jessica Jones, and though a lot of shellhead fans hated it, his Ironman was rather good too.

   He is an acquired taste. He brought positives to the Super titles such as new characters, dense background story, a psychological deconstruction of the Els/Kents as a family and he tried to reinvent Superman as a fresh character, not just as stodgy John Byrne Superman, but as a A CHARACTER. We got Clark Kent, working reporter, as an identifiable unique individual, the Bendis’ version of the man.

   Now with the positives, comes the Bendis’ baggage.

   Rogol Zaar was a disaster, both storyline and character were trash concepts that never should have seen the light of editorial pass through. Bendis is not good at villain invention on the cosmic or alien scale. He just is not. He lacks the imagination of a Jack Kirby or a Stan Lee or a Gil Kane. What he can do is recycle or repurpose old tried and true formula concepts, such as Red Cloud. She is a Batman type rogue who can be up-powered and purposed to fight and scheme against Kryptonian boy scouts.

   And that works. Create a street level environment and adversary system like the Underground Mafia plot for which Red Cloud is an uncatchable enforcer and one has a story.

   Farm Rogol Zaar off to Marc Andreyko and let him use that failed villain for his Supergirl story. Manhunter 2.0 with a nice murder at the end to avenge Krypton, only to find out it was a horrible Kara made mistake when she offs the one shot villain with his own ax.

   Meanwhile Bendis could do his Leviathan and Underground Mafia storylines and interweave them Purple Man fashion to befuddle and infuriate Clark.

   It might have worked. But note, I write; “might have”. The cosmic stuff with Legion and the United Planets and Young Justice was just Bendis’ bad habit of throwing everything at a failing core cosmic adventure storyline and hoping something clicks with the reader in the Super Titles.

   Jon’s super-vacation and time looped aging in the Crime Syndicate alternate-reality, all courtesy of granddaddy Jerk Jor-el as Bendis wrote it, just threw sand into the Superman Family centric wholesome character gears that Bendis thought he was writing. The actual result was Jon is now a time-bomb character (Superboy Prime 2.0..), Clark Kent is shown to be an imbecelic idiot, and Lois Lane should be in Blackgate Prison as the criminally convicted unfit mother.

   The other titles Bendis launched for a teen audience, Young Justice, and Legion, he made the fundamental mistake in not writing as RC type ELSEWORLDS books. By tying them and his new character, Naomi, into the Super Titles; Bendis introduced storyline conflicts that neither the DC editors nor he could deconflict once the spaghettification process started. So five titles went down the chute instead of 1 or 2. There is a lesson to be learned that ties into Supergirl the TV series. I will, show it to you now, using Bendis, the writer, as the example.

   Let us be honest. Comic book readers and aficionados have known this little factoid about BMB ever since he screwed up the X-Men and put them into the story fridge for a decade until his bad run had dimmed in fans’ memories. Bendis, though he means to write tight and tidy, once he gets into the story and plot, is like a crow with a shiny object in front of him. He will see a bright shiny neat idea bauble and tangent off to chase it and he meanders until he collects his “toy” of the moment. But by the time he is satisfied in his pursuit, he has lost track of the plot he creates and he stumbles around trying to get back to the core story present. This is the center of the myth that Bendis “deconstructs” or decompresses his stories. Not really true it is, for Bendis is kind of undisciplined in that he cannot outline a plan with goalpost story points and STICK TO IT. That is not how he writes. He is not Peter Tomasi, Mark Waid or Murphy love him for his anal retentive organizational writing plan manias, Jonathan Hickman. He writes where he, Bendis, feels the story takes him. That is a great strength for one who is character centered and understands psychological writing for a character like Jessica Jones or Peter Parker. It is a disaster for an action adventure type character like Superman.

   There is another DC writer with that great weakness. Tom King. He was fired off Batman for not getting the Bat-gerbil ethos at all, “as a playboy with time on his hands, with an SAS man as a “father figure butler” who sure screwed the kid up with the “guilt trips” and way too much money for his ego tripping and power fantasies. So King was replaced with Scott “freaking death metal’ Snyder, who writes flash and noise and is the Derek Simon of comic book writers, who does not get Bat-gerbil either. See a wrong writer assigned to the property trend here?

   But at least, Bendis has two great things in his favor. He is not Scott Snyder. And he is great when he is in his pilot house writing damaged and tortured psychological characters.[/b]

   ======================================================

   Coda and lesson learned?

   Monty’s Soap Box and Comics Commentary Corner….

   It lives or dies in the word processor. The writer has to love the character, yes, and want to say something with the character, but the writer HAS TO KNOW THE CHARACTER and be able to write the message to fit the character.

   https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl:_Red_Daughter_of_Krypton

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Soule

   For how to do it write? (Not a misspelling.)

   You cannot read it and not cry.

   ==============================================================

   It is my opinion that the writers of Supergirl should have done a better job understanding the character they were given to steward as they wrote her story in Season Four and Season Five. I do not know if they will do better by her in Season 6. I surely hope so.

   If not, then refer to Brian Michael Bendis and his results for not getting Superman and the Legion. And HE actually knows what he is doing.

   Monty

   Reply
2. 

   Montefescu on September 24, 2020 at 3:11 pm

   Might take a look at Supergirl Ep. 103 “Fight or Flight”

   Lessons learned but never applied, abound in this episode.

   Monty

   Reply
3. 

   Aaron on September 24, 2020 at 8:54 pm

   My mood: ?????!!!

   Agreed Justina, I don’t care if Curtis is a genius he’s not getting out with just two versions of the chip; there should have been at least 5 versions of it before Felicity became “normal” again. That plot ended WAY too soon.

   Again they aren’t great Justina; would you instead just like some straight up Huntress comics because I can drop an arc on you right now by Greg Rucka that’s a must read. 🙂 “Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood”!

   My think with Ryan is it would be one thing if Caroline came out and said she tried to get a recast but the network just wanted a fresh start but she didn’t say that she actively said she thought about recast but ended up voting to reboot it which makes me feel like they care more about the suit than who’s inside of it. That’s why I say I have a hard time trusting her. I agree the story could be good the story just should not be called “Batwoman”; Bruce Wayne to your comparison is always Batman just as Kate Kane is always Batwoman, again had someone else donned the cape beyond her it would be one thing but as is the character should be Kate not Ryan.

   Great words from Tyler…I’m still not watching that show. I get what you’re saying John but we could have revisited season one on our own show. I’m bitter I know; I’m not apologizing because it’s crap what happened to us. As an unsurprising spoiler expect bitter Team Huntress from now on.

   Sorry John I’m not buying what you’re selling; I know you and Justina are trying to be positive but we got cancelled. I know “Arrow” is a special case to go as long as it did despite many arguing it should have ended two seasons earlier so I won’t use it as an example but if “Flash” needs more than 6 seasons to tell his story why do we need only six? Multiple times fans have said Barry’s plots repeat so why is he still going? If Melissa had said she chose to be at home with the baby and thusly the CW said they wanted it ended because they didn’t want anyone but Melissa to be Kara I could understand it being mutual but she hasn’t so it’s cancelled for some dumb reason. 🙁 I have yet to see Melissa say it was in part her choice which is why I feel this way so if you have links saying otherwise please tell me because as far as I can tell Melissa didn’t want to end the series so it’s not a case of “Arrow” repeat with Stephen if you will.

   You can be cancelled and still have a planned final season John – see “Person Of Interest” who wrote a series finale as a season final in case they did get axed which sadly they did so yes it’s rare to get that but it can happen.

   Chyler! ??? I legit had to pause the podcast for a bit because I needed to cry and snot all over the place for a bit; her speech breaks me every time! The “And I got to know Alex Danvers” but especially kills me because she’s my favorite as you know and we’re not going to have her anymore now because we’re not even getting a spin off it seems (no *expletive* Superman doesn’t count to me) and so that lost is just like a heart punch at the least and a heart rip out at the most. ?

   MAN I hope we don’t end on a season 4 or 5!

   See I’m the reverse – I just feel the loss and it makes me sad and mad. I kind of don’t ever want to see season six so that way it can kind of never end; I know that’s realistic but that’s how I feel because I don’t understand why we have to say goodbye. You say it’s mutual but I don’t fully buy that. Maybe it’s because of the years of treating Kara like Clark and how they could have let us have one more panel even if it leads us on some, we could have had more time with the cast at Fandome, and such but I just feel there’s something going on more than the full truth about this end is coming out and the thing is again I could understand if they wanted to respect the series by saying they’ll end it because only Melissa will ever be Kara but this usually comes after weeks of debate not some sudden decision, there had to be talks going on before this news came out so they had time to plan spin off pitches and we’ve heard nothing and that leaves me feeling like it’s not as mutual as they say and we’re being shafted because again they got the toy they really wanted all along which makes me furious. I will probably be someone who can never see beyond the rage so again expect a lot of bitterness from me coming up but that’s just how I feel. It’s very much “Why us?!” and feeling like any arguments towards it being something that had to happen are just empty words because all I see are the ways it should still be around if that makes sense. I am not okay with this news at all; I’ll be honest the state of the world just adds to it because more than ever we could use S1 Kara…it was bad enough the series was going to end in my mind with the hypothetical season 10 I wanted but to end now with society having so many issues and we needing the hope and support Kara could bring each week, it really makes me understand all those “2020 – worst year ever” memes I’ll say that.

   Why do we need “Supergirl” stories on Superman’s show is my question because again why couldn’t we just have done them on ours and cut at least half the crap that was in season four and five? I don’t want to see awesome plots that could have been on our series wrapped up on another series, that doesn’t feel good to me. I get the sentiment behind it but I want it on our show not someone else.

   Superman gets his own series, “Supergirl” suddenly comes to an end…they were Kara like Clark for four years and again the moment he has his own show ours ends what else am I suppose to think John because if they try to say it’s because of the baby basically they had a long time they could have made this announcement but they wait until after Fandome in which Superman was heavily featured…I don’t know what else to connect it to because again our ratings weren’t bad and I haven’t seen Melissa say she wanted out so I don’t know any other reason to end your 2nd highest rated series especially when “Flash” is still going and Barry’s story has more than been told by now. There’s also Legends; are their shows going to end because their stories are basically done? If no, why is that the reason for ours?

   “Superman stories can move over to his show now”…which is where they should have always been not on ours; Kara has her own history she never needed Lex or Clark on there and I will say until my dying day that them treating her like Clark was the worst thing to happen on the series because we lost so much time doing stuff like him where we could have had more season one and it’s just SUCH a shame.

   “I just want it to stop” – give me a better explanation John because until I hear Melissa herself say it was because she wanted to move on so they’re doing an “Arrow” if you will I can’t see it as anything but influenced by him. Maybe it’s my hypersensitivity to his presence in the world but again I don’t know what else to think when ratings aren’t it and other series are still going so “it’s time” feels like a lame excuse. I feel at this point nothing short of Melissa saying she wants to move on because of family is going to make me change my mind on his show had an effect on ours because it makes no sense to end this series unless Melissa wanted out and if Stephen isn’t scared to say that why should she be and again I would think CW would make her say that if it was fully the case because they want to save face in this and the fact that article isn’t everywhere yet makes me feel it’s not because Melissa wanted to step away long term. This is just me though looking for answers and the only solid thing I see is Superman is being pushed and now all of a sudden “Supergirl” is out and again given how Kara has been treated for years I have no way to feel but like he’s part of this sudden end.

   With only 20 episodes left I don’t want any crossovers, I want season one quality stories and a ton of Danvers sisters moment; let the series go out on the highest high it can. Bring back the season one writing staff no matter the financial cost and let this series go out with the bang it came in on if you really still care about it. Pay Callista whatever it takes to be in an episode and lets get Cat back one more time, you can talk about Barry but I don’t want to see him, you can talk about Clark once but I really don’t want to see him…so want Danvers family moments, I want Danvers sister moments, I want space dad and Danvers kids moments, I want to see what Livewire is up to because she’s not dead, I want to see Bizzaro back because that’s yet another plot that never got finished…do not waste my time with crossovers or setting up other shows’ pilots unless that’s Alex’s spin off!

   They can yes, but will the season be good is the question.

   “It’s going to be okay folks.” – it’s not John.

   “What do you want from this?” – I want more seasons.

   Reply
4. 

   Montefescu on September 25, 2020 at 12:31 pm

   Aaron on September 24, 2020 at 8:54 pm
   My mood: ?????!!!,

   Breath, count to 10, and remember all the good episodes we did get.

   [b]Agreed Justina, I don’t care if Curtis is a genius he’s not getting out with just two versions of the chip; there should have been at least 5 versions of it before Felicity became “normal” again. That plot ended WAY too soon.[/b]

   Let me invite comparison to the current Batgirl in comics:

   https://youtu.be/BubDsukLTBE

   SUMMARY: Barbara Gordon got “cancelled” and “demoted”. The hope is that Barbara-Bat is going to resume Oracle in the canon, while it looks like Cassandra Cain, the character, is about to Ryan Wilder the Batgirl role. This does diversify the Bat-family and does give “representation” in a market where DC NEEDS a presence. Story gives way to $.

   Again they aren’t great Justina; would you instead just like some straight up Huntress comics because I can drop an arc on you right now by Greg Rucka that’s a must read. 🙂 “Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood”!

   Good call!

   My think with Ryan is it would be one thing if Caroline came out and said she tried to get a recast but the network just wanted a fresh start but she didn’t say that she actively said she thought about recast but ended up voting to reboot it which makes me feel like they care more about the suit than who’s inside of it. That’s why I say I have a hard time trusting her. I agree the story could be good the story just should not be called “Batwoman”; Bruce Wayne to your comparison is always Batman just as Kate Kane is always Batwoman, again had someone else donned the cape beyond her it would be one thing but as is the character should be Kate not Ryan.

   I am convinced that the mandate came down from corporate to recast with representation for market reasons at least with regard to viewership and for the same $ reasons.

   Great words from Tyler…I’m still not watching that show. I get what you’re saying John but we could have revisited season one on our own show. I’m bitter I know; I’m not apologizing because it’s crap what happened to us. As an unsurprising spoiler expect bitter Team Huntress from now on.

   Once again, I want to be glass half full. It could have been a finish, as is usual with the way TV networks do things, with just a press release and an order to cease production immediately. The show will be allowed to leave with dignity, as “Arrow” did.

   Sorry John I’m not buying what you’re selling; I know you and Justina are trying to be positive but we got cancelled. I know “Arrow” is a special case to go as long as it did despite many arguing it should have ended two seasons earlier so I won’t use it as an example but if “Flash” needs more than 6 seasons to tell his story why do we need only six? Multiple times fans have said Barry’s plots repeat so why is he still going? If Melissa had said she chose to be at home with the baby and thusly the CW said they wanted it ended because they didn’t want anyone but Melissa to be Kara I could understand it being mutual but she hasn’t so it’s cancelled for some dumb reason. 🙁 I have yet to see Melissa say it was in part her choice which is why I feel this way so if you have links saying otherwise please tell me because as far as I can tell Melissa didn’t want to end the series so it’s not a case of “Arrow” repeat with Stephen if you will.

   I have seen nothing except industry data that implies this was a decision to end a series with a falling viewership and advertising and revenue base. I know this reason is cold comfort, but the CW is a business and businesses have to look closely at production cost versus revenue stream generated. Supergirl was in the red and a money loser. It was going to be canceled as a business decision. That is the way it works. I can tell you the glass half empty why of it, but the fact is; Supergirl fans are passionate and because of that passion, the show still had/has enough revenue stream and audience gravitas to close with dignity on its own terms. It would be “bad business” to deep six the show the way it could and SHOULD have gone out as a result of the Season Five disaster which in cold business logic thoroughly justified its death. I expected Supergirl to die once Season Five concluded as a result of the mess Derek Simon’s treatment of the show episode he wrote in “Crisis of Infinite Earths” actually indicated. The incompetence and awfulness of that episode had shown everything wrong with Season Five and presaged the viewer fall-off to be expected in the second half. So while I would want a Season Seven or Eight, I would rather have Season Six be a good signoff, given that the death blow had already landed last year, Aaron. All things die. Better to choose HOW one dies, than to let someone else choose for you.

   You can be cancelled and still have a planned final season John – see “Person Of Interest” who wrote a series finale as a season final in case they did get axed which sadly they did so yes it’s rare to get that but it can happen.

   “Babylon 5” had the danger of Cancellation so many times that J.M. Stracynski created three episodes that specifically were designed to close the series on its own terms and each time, when it looked like the series was to die, it turned out the “closer” was so good, that his backers gave him another year until he made his full five year story.

   It could happen for Supergirl, that it will generate a follow on series (I am not suggesting Superman and Lois, because Tyler Hoechlin is the Kiss of Death, as much as Henry Cavill, is for Superman, so that show is DOOMED.). It could be we get something. Who knows?

   [quote]Chyler! ??? I legit had to pause the podcast for a bit because I needed to cry and snot all over the place for a bit; her speech breaks me every time! The “And I got to know Alex Danvers” but especially kills me because she’s my favorite as you know and we’re not going to have her anymore now because we’re not even getting a spin off it seems (no *expletive* Superman doesn’t count to me) and so that lost is just like a heart punch at the least and a heart rip out at the most. ?[/quote]

   If she wants it, there is a role for Chyler Leigh, the actress, on any show for which she auditions. I am not feeling sorry for her. I am indeed overjoyed that she will not get the Mehcad Brooks Jimmy Olsen character career damaging treatment he received. Glass half full. She could wind up as a Canary or a Bat-gerbillette or Huntress or even dare write it, BARBARA GORDON, if she wants it. Casting her will be EASY. She can do the physical stuff and she can ACT.

   MAN I hope we don’t end on a season 4 or 5!

   I have written what I think about it. I will add this much: we were lucky to get out of season four alive. It was that bad at the end.

   See I’m the reverse – I just feel the loss and it makes me sad and mad. I kind of don’t ever want to see season six so that way it can kind of never end; I know that’s (un) realistic but that’s how I feel because I don’t understand why we have to say goodbye. You say it’s mutual but I don’t fully buy that. Maybe it’s because of the years of treating Kara like Clark and how they could have let us have one more panel even if it leads us on some, we could have had more time with the cast at Fandome, and such but I just feel there’s something going on more than the full truth about this end is coming out and the thing is again I could understand if they wanted to respect the series by saying they’ll end it because only Melissa will ever be Kara but this usually comes after weeks of debate not some sudden decision, there had to be talks going on before this news came out so they had time to plan spin off pitches and we’ve heard nothing and that leaves me feeling like it’s not as mutual as they say and we’re being shafted because again they got the toy they really wanted all along which makes me furious. I will probably be someone who can never see beyond the rage so again expect a lot of bitterness from me coming up but that’s just how I feel. It’s very much “Why us?!” and feeling like any arguments towards it being something that had to happen are just empty words because all I see are the ways it should still be around if that makes sense. I am not okay with this news at all; I’ll be honest the state of the world just adds to it because more than ever we could use S1 Kara…it was bad enough the series was going to end in my mind with the hypothetical season 10 I wanted but to end now with society having so many issues and we needing the hope and support Kara could bring each week, it really makes me understand all those “2020 – worst year ever” memes I’ll say that.

   Cheer up. Henry Cavill floated the idea that he was up for Superman Round II. How did that go? Nowhere as of this moment, with that waste of negative space now limited to cameos and that is because he is no good as a Superman. So Superman the movie to follow Man of Stupid is kind of hung out there to DIE.

   https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/supergirl-spoilers-tv-show-ending-season-6-movie-dceu/

   We might get Kara in a movie. The HBO plus does need something besides the Snyder Insult to Movie Making as a hook.

   OTOH. We may have to wait for the right pitchmeister to sell it.

   Why do we need “Supergirl” stories on Superman’s show is my question because again why couldn’t we just have done them on ours and cut at least half the crap that was in season four and five? I don’t want to see awesome plots that could have been on our series wrapped up on another series, that doesn’t feel good to me. I get the sentiment behind it but I want it on our show not someone else.

   I want WONK. Maybe someone will use that story as the basis of a 4 hour treatment?

   Superman gets his own series, “Supergirl” suddenly comes to an end…they were Kara like Clark for four years and again the moment he has his own show ours ends what else am I suppose to think John because if they try to say it’s because of the baby basically they had a long time they could have made this announcement but they wait until after Fandome in which Superman was heavily featured…I don’t know what else to connect it to because again our ratings weren’t bad and I haven’t seen Melissa say she wanted out so I don’t know any other reason to end your 2nd highest rated series especially when “Flash” is still going and Barry’s story has more than been told by now. There’s also Legends; are their shows going to end because their stories are basically done? If no, why is that the reason for ours?

   The numbers… the numbers. I have written about this factor above. I have also written about why it is better to go out on your feet and vbe admired, rather than be carried off and then become hated for it.

   “Superman stories can move over to his show now”…which is where they should have always been not on ours; Kara has her own history she never needed Lex or Clark on there and I will say until my dying day that them treating her like Clark was the worst thing to happen on the series because we lost so much time doing stuff like him where we could have had more season one and it’s just SUCH a shame.

   With this sentiment, the bad writing and show runner decisions, I cannot disagree with that assessment.

   “I just want it to stop” – give me a better explanation John because until I hear Melissa herself say it was because she wanted to move on so they’re doing an “Arrow” if you will I can’t see it as anything but influenced by him. Maybe it’s my hypersensitivity to his presence in the world but again I don’t know what else to think when ratings aren’t it and other series are still going so “it’s time” feels like a lame excuse. I feel at this point nothing short of Melissa saying she wants to move on because of family is going to make me change my mind on his show had an effect on ours because it makes no sense to end this series unless Melissa wanted out and if Stephen isn’t scared to say that why should she be and again I would think CW would make her say that if it was fully the case because they want to save face in this and the fact that article isn’t everywhere yet makes me feel it’s not because Melissa wanted to step away long term. This is just me though looking for answers and the only solid thing I see is Superman is being pushed and now all of a sudden “Supergirl” is out and again given how Kara has been treated for years I have no way to feel but like he’s part of this sudden end.

   I will keep reminding that business decisions have numbers, and that Tyler Hoechlin cannot carry a series. I refuse to believe it. He does not have the “Q” for it.

   With only 20 episodes left I don’t want any crossovers, I want season one quality stories and a ton of Danvers sisters moment; let the series go out on the highest high it can. Bring back the season one writing staff no matter the financial cost and let this series go out with the bang it came in on if you really still care about it. Pay Callista whatever it takes to be in an episode and lets get Cat back one more time, you can talk about Barry but I don’t want to see him, you can talk about Clark once but I really don’t want to see him…so want Danvers family moments, I want Danvers sister moments, I want space dad and Danvers kids moments, I want to see what Livewire is up to because she’s not dead, I want to see Bizzaro back because that’s yet another plot that never got finished…do not waste my time with crossovers or setting up other shows’ pilots unless that’s Alex’s spin off!

   I do not know if that wish list is possible.

   They can yes, but will the season be good is the question.

   I do not know. It is a gamble. If Derek Simon is still drawing a pay check, I do not have high hopes.

   “It’s going to be okay folks.” – it’s not John.

   It will be okay. We will have something in the future. This chapter? I never expected to see Supergirl hurl Fort Rozz into space on a live action show. I never expected Reign. I never expected Martian Manhunter or Miss Martian. I am GRATEFUL.

   “What do you want from this?” – I want more seasons.

   I want good memories, which I have, and I want THE MOVIE.

   Monty

   Reply
5. 

   Montefescu on September 25, 2020 at 12:34 pm

   I will add this comic con panel…

   https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/supergirl-spoilers-tv-show-ending-season-6-movie-dceu/

   Monty

   Reply
6. 

   Leslie on September 26, 2020 at 12:33 pm

   Aaron, I agree with the points you have made above. I will expound more on these issues in upcoming feedback regarding what is happening to our beloved Supergirl and TV series.

   Here’s an article I found. What do you think?

   “Supergirl Ending As Superman & Lois Starts Is A Bad Look For The Arrowverse.”

   https://screenrant.com/supergirl-arrowverse-ending-before-superman-lois-diversity-bad/?fbclid=IwAR2vNkM-Xo1ievA4cTVpsvjT0de9aLLo__N7yYSPMChrxA8n3E_kerDkRTQ

   Leslie

   Reply
   • 

     Aaron on September 26, 2020 at 5:51 pm

     Just starting with the title, “Supergirl Ending As Superman & Lois Starts Is A Bad Look For The Arrowverse.”, I already agree yes it’s a bad look because you are ending a female lead series for a male one. The comic industry already has a stigma of being “for the boys” and this doesn’t help that; it’s a society stigma that female are meant to relate to male heroes but males in turn aren’t expected to relate to female ones so you have a ratio imbalance. In a time when female rights are being attacked left, right, and center by certain groups you end a female series? We only had 3 to start with because while all respect to Sara Lance Legends is not called “White Canary” and does not focus on Sara specifically so it’s not the same as “Stargirl” or “Supergirl”; I know in the comic book landscape for CW Barry is the lone man if you will but still in the grand scheme how often do you see a female lead series go for multiple seasons? So while he is the minority here he’s still the majority being a male lead program.

     Also as we’ve said they’ve been writing Kara like Clark ever since season two so yeah the fact “Supergirl” is ending the moment he gets his show feels really slimey if you ask me. How can six years be enough to tell Kara’s story when we haven’t seen Kara since season one honestly?! Again how is six years enough for her but it takes Barry seven or eight? Legends technically solved their crime in season one so it should be over also. None of the reasons for ending the series make sense when you break them down even a little which says to me they did it because of Superman; Melissa didn’t want to leave because of the baby so it is not mutual so yeah it’s a really bad look for them and honestly makes me not care about the CW as a whole.

     Just going beyond Kara we’re losing so much representation which is a bad look for their diversity campaign; we lose Alex and her romances for a straight pair, is one of the boys going to be gay because otherwise that’s a loss for the queer fans, and were going to lose Nia who was the first trans character on the network period so who’s going to give that representation back to people?

     Again not a great look for them!

     Reading the article…

     “While the timing was unintentional” – was it? They again had time before Fandome to announce this if it’s a mutual choice like they say so why didn’t they? Why did they wait until after Superman’s 1,638,921st project was announced?

     “but it is suspected that series’ star Melissa Benoist, who recently celebrated the birth of her first child, wished to focus on the joys of motherhood without having to balance her new responsibilities with starring in a superhero drama.” – suspected and Melissa’s choice are two different things. Chyler has 3 kids and she’s making it work; David has kids and he makes it work. Granted every individual is different but still until Melissa herself comes out and says it’s because she wanted to spend time with her child and the CW says no one but Melissa could be Kara so they chose to end it I feel the baby is a excuse some will push but is not as much the cause as some might believe!

     “The first season of Supergirl tried to address this by not having Superman appear on-screen and focusing on Kara’s life outside of heroism” – and the series was better for it; the worst thing the series could ever do was actually have Superman on the show as you see. Since the moment he was in season two they stopped doing Kara and started doing Klark! ?They gave her his job supposedly as a nod to him but the whole point of season one was it’s HER story not his and nothing in season one said Kara wanted to be a reporter so it was about him not her with that move! ? Season five is Lex Luthor’s season, Lex is Clark’s bad guy not Kara’s; we have Max and Lillian and Sam Lane we don’t need Lex on the series! ?

     “Ironically, Kara’s status as an independent hero seemed to improve with the casting of Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent in Supergirl season 2. Giving a face to the Man of Steel helped to humanize him, as did allowing Kara to interact with her cousin directly.” – I don’t get this part; how did she improve with the casting as if anything Kara Danvers disappeared once Clark Kent was actually on the series and Kara interacted via text with him in season one so this part makes me ask what show we’re they watching to say this.

     “Yet Supergirl still faced accusations of having to weaken Superman in order to make Supergirl seem like an equal, such as when Kara teased him by telling a group of kids that she used to change his diapers” – it’s not a tease if it’s fact. Also the only people who b*tched we’re those who’s egos are so fragile and small in mind they can’t fathom that a woman can beat a man. Yes physically 1 on 1 a male may be stronger but not every male is automatically stronger than every female and if you say every male is stronger than every woman is more dexterous and you can’t hit what you can’t hit so it’s perfectly logical that a woman can beat a man in a fight; some seem to forget Kara has actual tactical training so Clark can punch all he wants but if he’s tired during the fight Kara only needs to hit him once to win!

     “They also claimed that the only reason a Supergirl show was made in the first place was because they couldn’t get the rights to Superman.” – sadly that seems accurate. 🙁 Again I ask if they could have gotten the rights to Batman first would there ever be an “Arrow”? So in that frame it’s kind of treated equal but still the fact the show is ending now that there is a Superman series is a horrible look for the CW and they are doing nothing so far to change that which is also not a good look for them.

     We are in an almost instantaneous information worlds the news of “Supergirl” being cancelled dropped at latest Wednesday and it’s now Saturday (as of this typing), they’ve had plenty of time to announce an Alex spin off because the fans have said how much we love her! They have had plenty of time to basically force Melissa to take the blame by saying it was over the baby but there’s still nothing to that effect. They’re not helping themselves at all with me I can assure you; again maybe this petty but this is where they have driven me to be over it all.

     “paving the way for series like Batwoman and Stargirl.” – this is true but will it get the credit for that? Probably not as even while running it didn’t always get the respect it deserved from other fandoms.

     “If nothing else, the fact that The CW feels Superman should share his show with Lois Lane seems to stand as proof that” – this is not proof of no sexism, Lois Lane is THE romance for Clark Kent and they already established her as being part of his life from his appearances on “Supergirl” so what we’re they going to do not show her? That would mean recasting Tyler because that would be a new Superman and we still honestly don’t know how much she’ll play into the series so again or proof. Yes she could be the badass reporter she’s told to be in comics but she could also just be the mom character most females get saddled playing in series.

     I’m definitely working on some more comments about this dumb decision Leslie!

     Reply
7. 

   Leslie on September 26, 2020 at 9:00 pm

   Aaron — way to go!!

   “Ironically, Kara’s status as an independent hero seemed to improve with the casting of Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent in Supergirl season 2. Giving a face to the Man of Steel helped to humanize him, as did allowing Kara to interact with her cousin directly.” — I agree that this statement in the article makes absolutely no sense.

   Overall, I feel and have felt that the CW and DC have disrespected Supergirl as a female superhero, the Supergirl TV series, and Supergirl fans. . . from changing the days and times the show airs to the inexplicable bad writing in Seasons 4 and 5 where someone thought it would be neat to bring Lex Luthor on the show to be the master manipulator for two seasons and he’s going to apart of Season 6. Hopefully, Lex’s appearance in Season 6 is limited to a couple of episodes which is still too many.

   I enjoy watching female superheroes. Until Stargirl, there were two shows whose titled characters were female. Prior to the announcement about Supergirl ending, we had 3 female lead superhero shows on the CW. Now we are down to 2. I am not okay (actually I am rather upset and exercised about this development) with Supergirl ending and the CW shouldn’t expect that I would be okay with this situation, even though I am entirely grateful for 6 seasons and 126 episodes. But I was hoping for 10 Supergirl seasons or at least as many seasons as the Flash or Arrow.

   It would have been nice if one of Clark’s kids were a female. Perhaps I would then be interested in watching this female Kryptonian grow up who I could compare to Kara. As of now, I am not interested in watching Superman and Lois. If Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh, David Harewood, and other members of the Supergirl cast guest star on Superman and Lois, then I will watch that episode.

   Reply
8. 

   Montefescu on September 27, 2020 at 12:32 am

   Aaron on September 26, 2020 at 5:51 pm

   Just starting with the title, “Supergirl Ending As Superman & Lois Starts Is A Bad Look For The Arrowverse.”, I already agree yes it’s a bad look because you are ending a female lead series for a male one. The comic industry already has a stigma of being “for the boys” and this doesn’t help that; it’s a society stigma that female are meant to relate to male heroes but males in turn aren’t expected to relate to female ones so you have a ratio imbalance. In a time when female rights are being attacked left, right, and center by certain groups you end a female series? We only had 3 to start with because while all respect to Sara Lance Legends is not called “White Canary” and does not focus on Sara specifically so it’s not the same as “Stargirl” or “Supergirl”; I know in the comic book landscape for CW Barry is the lone man if you will but still in the grand scheme how often do you see a female lead series go for multiple seasons? So while he is the minority here he’s still the majority being a male lead program.

   a. Superman and Lois: Not happy about low “Q” Tyler and non-actor Elizabeth. This is not a good Superman or Lois.
   b. Black Lightning: Great show with great story and social consciousness
   c. Legends: Whacky adventures in magic and time travel. I love the characters of Sarah Lance and hate John Constantine, so meh.
   d. Arrow and the Canaries: When will it launch?
   e. Star Girl: Geoff Johns had no love for female superheroes, so why did he put his heart and soul into Courtney Whitmore? Tribute to his sister, Courtney. Great character, and great show.
   f. The Flash: I still think Nora was the best Berlanti-verse season ever written, cause it had Guggenhei, and Gates AUTHORSHIP all over it.
   g. Supergirl : I have comments loaded that need moderator permission but to summarize, numbers, revenue stream and disastrous writing is why Season 6 is the finish.

   Also as we’ve said they’ve been writing Kara like Clark ever since season two so yeah the fact “Supergirl” is ending the moment he gets his show feels really slimey if you ask me. How can six years be enough to tell Kara’s story when we haven’t seen Kara since season one honestly?! Again how is six years enough for her but it takes Barry seven or eight? Legends technically solved their crime in season one so it should be over also. None of the reasons for ending the series make sense when you break them down even a little which says to me they did it because of Superman; Melissa didn’t want to leave because of the baby so it is not mutual so yeah it’s a really bad look for them and honestly makes me not care about the CW as a whole.

   You may not like what I have to write about “For the Girl Who has Everything”. I actually LIKE the episode, for though the disgraced Andrew Kreisberg had the input into the writers, he tried to give it the Kara spin.

   Just going beyond Kara we’re losing so much representation which is a bad look for their diversity campaign; we lose Alex and her romances for a straight pair, is one of the boys going to be gay because otherwise that’s a loss for the queer fans, and we’re going to lose Nia who was the first trans character on the network period so who’s going to give that representation back to people?

   One will not like to read this either, but haters are going to hate, and the only antidote to them, is to WRITE great stories and tell the message in a great way. Specifically the writing became unacceptable to me in Season Four. I hated the Liberty, Liberty storyline for the hidden anti-Semitisms about which I noted and commented at the time, which was a huge anger enragement moment for me. That the writers could be so tone deaf to that subject, was a huge turning point for ME.
   Again not a great look for them!

   Took the words from my word processor.

   Reading the article…

   That article is terrible in the slant and in the speculation. It is an alibi piece.

   “While the timing was unintentional” – was it? They again had time before Fandome to announce this if it’s a mutual choice like they say so why didn’t they? Why did they wait until after Superman’s 1,638,921st project was announced?

   Businesses are like people. Corporations actually have “personalities”. GM is the Elmer Fudd of auto makers. Disney is kind of like Darth Vader in entertainment, and Warners is kind of like Foghorn Leghorn… you know… a rooster with a big mouth, but at core, still all chicken.

   “ “but it is suspected that series’ star Melissa Benoist, who recently celebrated the birth of her first child, wished to focus on the joys of motherhood without having to balance her new responsibilities with starring in a superhero drama.” – suspected and Melissa’s choice are two different things. Chyler has 3 kids and she’s making it work; David has kids and he makes it work. Granted every individual is different but still until Melissa herself comes out and says it’s because she wanted to spend time with her child and the CW says no one but Melissa could be Kara so they chose to end it I feel the baby is a excuse some will push but is not as much the cause as some might believe!

   I would be sued for making an unsubstantiated claim. Suffice it to note, that a reason given for a corporate action is carefully packaged to represent a “decision” in the best light possible for the parties concerned. Whether the representation is the core reason, is always open to speculation, but not by me.

   I simply note the fact that Ms. Benoist IS doing Season Six. She is working immediately after the birth of her child. I suspect that this datum point could be used to ask the question about why is it, if Ms. Benoist works immediately after the birth of her child, why should the speculation be that she wants to retire as Supergirl be part of the reason for the series to not go beyond Season Six? Has she declared it?

   “The first season of Supergirl tried to address this by not having Superman appear on-screen and focusing on Kara’s life outside of heroism” – and the series was better for it; the worst thing the series could ever do was actually have Superman on the show as you see. Since the moment he was in season two they stopped doing Kara and started doing Klark! ?They gave her his job supposedly as a nod to him but the whole point of season one was it’s HER story not his and nothing in season one said Kara wanted to be a reporter so it was about him not her with that move! ? Season five is Lex Luthor’s season, Lex is Clark’s bad guy not Kara’s; we have Max and Lillian and Sam Lane we don’t need Lex on the series! ?

   Actually, an attempt was made in Season Three with the Reign story line to focus on a KARA centric storyline, but it was botched with the three MacBeth witchy-poos and then we get Season Five with the beached whale storyline and more witchy-poos. BAD WRITING. Formulaic evil alien invaders try to brainwash humans each and every season did not help the overall story progressions either.

   “Ironically, Kara’s status as an independent hero seemed to improve with the casting of Tyler Hoechlin as Clark Kent in Supergirl season 2. Giving a face to the Man of Steel helped to humanize him, as did allowing Kara to interact with her cousin directly.” – I don’t get this part; how did she improve with the casting as if anything Kara Danvers disappeared once Clark Kent was actually on the series and Kara interacted via text with him in season one so this part makes me ask what show we’re they watching to say this.

   Hmm. That was not the article portion which bothered me. This was.

   Quoting:

   While this is perfectly understandable, the timing is unfortunate. One of the biggest challenges “Supergirl” as a series and Benoist as a performer faced when Supergirl first premiered in 2015 was in dragging Kara Zor-El out of the shadow of her famous cousin. The character was originally introduced to DC in 1958 in a bid to lure more girls into reading comics, while copying the success of similar characters like Mary Marvel and Miss America. Although Supergirl proved popular, she never really progressed beyond being a female version of Superman and remained derivative for most of her published life. The first season of Supergirl tried to address this by not having Superman appear on-screen and focusing on Kara’s life outside of heroism, but this only raised questions as to why Kal-El never felt the need to check-in on his cousin, as she started following in his footsteps as a costumed hero.

   Obviously never read Peter Alan Davis’s Supergirl run.

   Actually, I commented as early as Episode 8 that Superman dumping KARA off at the Danvers, made him something of a “Richard” and I was fine with him NOT appearing on the series, because I would expect some cousin friction and resentment and family abandonment issues to surface if the character writing was any good.

   “Yet Supergirl still faced accusations of having to weaken Superman in order to make Supergirl seem like an equal, such as when Kara teased him by telling a group of kids that she used to change his diapers” – it’s not a tease if it’s fact. Also the only people who b*tched were those who’s egos are so fragile and small in mind they can’t fathom that a woman can beat a man. Yes physically 1 on 1 a male may be stronger but not every male is automatically stronger than every female and if you say every male is stronger than every woman is more dexterous and you can’t hit what you can’t hit so it’s perfectly logical that a woman can beat a man in a fight; some seem to forget Kara has actual tactical training so Clark can punch all he wants but if he’s tired during the fight Kara only needs to hit him once to win!

   Not for one second do I think Pablo Pasqual can take Gina Carrano, either in a real fight or as an actor. So there is a real example of the case set in “The Mandelorian”. Ditto Tyler and Chyler for Supergirl. He’s a wimp, and Chyler is the REAL DEAL. Maybe Melissa is a stretch in the case set, because I noticed early that she, Miss Benoist, cannot kick hard or throw a proper punch.

   As for changing diapers and feeding babies… (Waves hand, because I have been there and done that thing for mine and again for my nieces and nephews.) … if it needs to be done and no-one else is there to do? What is the big deal?

   “They also claimed that the only reason a Supergirl show was made in the first place was because they couldn’t get the rights to Superman.” – sadly that seems accurate. 🙁 Again I ask if they could have gotten the rights to Batman first would there ever be an “Arrow”? So in that frame it’s kind of treated equal but still the fact the show is ending now that there is a Superman series is a horrible look for the CW and they are doing nothing so far to change that which is also not a good look for them.

   “Arrow” worked. Supergirl could have worked. It was the writing that was the difference.

   We are in an almost instantaneous information worlds the news of “Supergirl” being cancelled dropped at latest Wednesday and it’s now Saturday (as of this typing), they’ve had plenty of time to announce an Alex spin off because the fans have said how much we love her! They have had plenty of time to basically force Melissa to take the blame by saying it was over the baby but there’s still nothing to that effect. They’re not helping themselves at all with me I can assure you; again maybe this petty but this is where they have driven me to be over it all.

   Want to create a Batgirl show with a redhead? What? Do not scoff. Have a lead in mind with experience already to go. Add a Canary and a Huntress and it is a series with an ensemble cast.

   “paving the way for series like Batwoman and Stargirl.” – this is true but will it get the credit for that? Probably not as even while running it didn’t always get the respect it deserved from other fandoms.

   “Batwoman” is a mess. Stargirl has Geoff Johns. Huge advantage.

   “If nothing else, the fact that The CW feels Superman should share his show with Lois Lane seems to stand as proof that” – this is not proof of no sexism, Lois Lane is THE romance for Clark Kent and they already established her as being part of his life from his appearances on “Supergirl” so what were they going to do; not show her? That would mean recasting Tyler because that would be a new Superman and we still honestly don’t know how much she’ll play into the series so again or proof. Yes she could be the badass reporter she’s told to be in comics but she could also just be the mom character most females get saddled playing in series.

   I am not looking forward to the reviews I will be writing on this one… turkey and an actress who cannot pronounce her “th’s”. Ugh!

   I’m definitely working on some more comments about this dumb decision Leslie!

   I have written about this decision above. If it is cleared you will see what I think.

   Monty

   Reply
9. 

   Montefescu on September 27, 2020 at 2:19 am

   In keeping with the Batwoman tracking, we have a possible first look at Javicia Leslie in the Bat-Gerbilette suit.

   https://www.instagram.com/p/CFlKJHtBaRU/?utm_source=ig_embed

   That is not too bad. I think it is a work in progress.

   Monty

   Reply
10. 

    Aaron on September 27, 2020 at 6:05 am

    I don’t mind a schedule change Leslie, they’re not great mind you but they’re pretty normal when a network gets a ton of new shows all at one time and if anything scheduling was actually handled fairly amongst the shows because “Arrow” changed days once a season it felt at a point.

    The garbage writing I do take issue with because it feels like they don’t even care and I know sometimes you have plots that you’re proud of that just don’t work but they had half a season where it could have been changed thanks to fan feedback and they just made it worse with Lex! And I have to ask now was part of that non care because they knew the series was ending? If it’s truly a mutual decision the crew has known before Wednesday so just how long did they know? Season four was problematic writing for sure but season five was a dumpster fire so if I get answers for only one I want to know why is five so bad and why so much emphasis on Lex on Kara’s show; again that is Clark’s main villain so if this end isn’t Clark related why waste so much time on his villain because again we have awesome bad guys of our own one of whom was in the last season already – Lillian!

    Seeing Lex in any of the final episodes is going to make me vote in middle fingers I’ll be honest now because he never should have been on this series more than two episodes and all of his stuff should have furthered Lena since she’s our weekly character not him! I don’t want any more time wasted on Superman stuff I don’t care how wear it makes continuity, we wasted 4 years already on doing Kara like him I don’t want to see that be her end; this was suppose to be HER story not his. Just never mention Lex and never mention Leviathan and act like this season exists in its own bubble and give me a ton of Danvers sisters time because otherwise they’re probably going to mess up the final season also and that’s just a heart rip out for sure.

    “But I was hoping for 10 Supergirl seasons or at least as many seasons as the Flash or Arrow.” – EXACTLY! And the thing is season one “Supergirl” could have made those ten years because it was that good; that is is and was the best season for a comic book show so far you can’t convince me otherwise. I can see them saying no one goes above “Arrow” because it’s the special but we could have gotten 7 like “Flash” and that’s just the end point for all shows because again no one can go over Oliver to them. Even if you say 10 was never realistic due to costs at that point, again they could have easily done 7 or 8 and if you try to tell me her story is done that’s bull because Kara’s only had one season of her story, was other characters have had 5 years of content but Kara Danvers has been on the series since season one because they’ve been doing Klark so that doesn’t count and why does Barry Allen need 7 or 8 years to tell his story and Legends needs whatever they’re on now but Kara only needs six? It doesn’t add up!

    “It would have been nice if one of Clark’s kids were a female.” – yep! Again it’s like they think Clark is too “manly” to have a female child. 🙁 ? As you said the female child could be a comparison to Kara and male us ask if this is what Kara would have been like or not had Clark raised her instead. Fraternal twins exist creators!

    I honestly don’t even think I’d want to watch the guest appearances by our group Leslie because all I would be thinking is “they get 5 seconds because of you” you know? Again I appreciate Tyler’s words at the con they put him in a good light currently to me but at the same time I don’t want to look at Tyler in blue now because it just makes me angry. Again John I know you say it’s not because of Superman that “Supergirl” is ending but again show me another reason because there doesn’t appear to be one; even if you say it’s mutual that means on some level the network wanted it to end also which again is not a good look for them. If they really wanted to keep the series going but are ending the main for some wish of Melissa’s hypothetically then they very easily could have announced an Alex spin off but they haven’t; look how fast they announced a new season of “Stargirl” or announced Ryan Wilder…especially if they’ve known about this before Wednesday so where’s the announcement? Ok you can argue maybe Chyler doesn’t want to but still there’s the Legion even though I won’t watch it because I only care about Nia out of the group; bottom like is they could do something and they’ve done nothing which again feels to me personally it’s because they don’t care because now they have Superman like they’ve wanted since the start.

    “Arrow and the Canaries: When will it launch?” – probably never at this point Monty. 🙁

    I agree, it’s because of the tribute that “Stargirl” gets its large support from its creator…if it was just another show because they couldn’t get access to Wonder Woman yet then the moment they did this might go too but the tribute makes someone beyond fans fight for it.

    I too enjoy Nora Allen but we won’t see her until “Flash” ends; hopefully Lea will be back also because I really enjoyed her in that one episode. 🙂

    If it was all about numbers Monty Legends would have been gone years ago or at least their cast size severely cut but nothing has changed for them so I can’t see numbers meaning that much.

    You could extend lack of diversity back to “Batwoman” also because yes you have a minority playing the role but we potentially still lose diversity in the form of religion because while not shown in season one a lot Kate Kane is Jewish and there’s only ever been one other Jewish character in the comic universe which was Felicity so that’s a lost via the reboot also.

    Again Monty corporations as you say are not afraid of protecting themselves so I think if it was on Melissa they would make Melissa say that to save face but they haven’t so again I don’t think it’s as “mutual” as maybe they want people to believe; it feels more like maybe Melissa understandably would like time with her child during their formative months to have those first memories and the network took it and used that as leverage to end the series because they got their Superman toy anyways so now fans can’t say they’re neglecting one over the other as it were even though they still are. They could come out now and have some release about it being on Melissa and no on but her could be Kara in their eyes but at this point for me it’ll feel like spin because it shouldn’t have taken that long; a statement like that should have accompanied the release not come weeks after. Again all I can personally feel like is they dumped “Supergirl” because of Superman and it’s just a benefit of timing with the baby for them that they don’t have to take the full blame if you will even though it’s still 80% their choice if you will because again they could have also announced Friday an Alex spin off or something but they haven’t so it’s not mutual to me no matter how much that word gets thrown out.

    Ooh Monty, ooh Monty you know how to get me sir. 🙂 A rebooted “Birds Of Prey” could be fun if they do it right! As for Alex as Batgirl no, Alex is more Huntress than anything but still Alex needs to be your Amanda Waller type but she doesn’t go as far as Amanda at times because that’s not Alex. We need more anti heroes on shows in this universe and Alex Danvers gives you that, so could Helena Bertinelli, so Alex should be her own thing maybe helping the Birds. If you just call the series “Birds” or “B.O.P.” you could have Alex as a complete member along with others like a Julianna Dinah Drake Canary or Katie Cassidy Black Siren (also anti hero) and like Legends your roster is open to changing through seasons since the BOP does have a decent sized list. I would personally be hesitant to call the series “Birds Of Prey” straight out because that conjures up images of the main three leads – Oracle, Black Canary, and Huntress and if they’re not in it that’s kind of false advertising so I would say go with “B.O.P.” or “The Birds” and leave Birds Of Prey for articles. If you have at least 2 of the big 3 weekly then you can call it “Birds Of Prey”. 🙂

    In regards to Javicia’s photo, they have to change the red because it’s just making me angry; red was picked by Kate because it’s a representation of the birth stone color she and Beth share and thus I think about Kate and you don’t want me thinking about the past when you’re trying to create a new future. She can’t do yellow either because that’s too much like Batgirl’s suit but yeah they need to change the red. If she was Kate first instead of Ruby I would say it looks great but right now all I can again feel is like I’ve said they care more about the suit and the image it produces than who’s in the suit. *sigh*

    Reply
11. 

    Montefescu on September 27, 2020 at 8:52 am

    Aaron on September 27, 2020 at 6:05 am
    I don’t mind a schedule change Leslie, they’re not great mind you but they’re pretty normal when a network gets a ton of new shows all at one time and if anything scheduling was actually handled fairly amongst the shows because “Arrow” changed days once a season it felt at a point.
    In the case of “Supergirl”, part of the schedule change was packaging and slotting it on Sunday with “Batwoman”, for the belief at CW was that the same target audience would watch the two programs together as a target block. As Brie Larson might have commented about when the Kong movie did not work too well; “How did that monkey work out for us, again?”
    The garbage writing I do take issue with because it feels like they don’t even care and I know sometimes you have plots that you’re proud of that just don’t work but they had half a season where it could have been changed thanks to fan feedback and they just made it worse with Lex! And I have to ask now was part of that non care because they knew the series was ending? If it’s truly a mutual decision the crew has known before Wednesday so just how long did they know? Season four was problematic writing for sure but season five was a dumpster fire so if I get answers for only one I want to know why is five so bad and why so much emphasis on Lex on Kara’s show; again that is Clark’s main villain so if this end isn’t Clark related why waste so much time on his villain because again we have awesome bad guys of our own one of whom was in the last season already – Lillian!
    How many questions can be answered at the writers’ bullpen and at the showrunners’ meetings? One can ask all of those questions (Cough, Derek Simon, cough.) and never get answers.
    Seeing Lex in any of the final episodes is going to make me vote in middle fingers. I’ll be honest now because he never should have been on this series more than two episodes and all of his stuff should have furthered Lena since she’s our weekly character not him! I don’t want any more time wasted on Superman stuff I don’t care how wear it makes continuity, we wasted four years already on doing Kara like him I don’t want to see that be her end; this was supposed to be HER story not his. Just never mention Lex and never mention Leviathan and act like this season exists in its own bubble and give me a ton of Danvers sisters’ time because otherwise they’re probably going to mess up the final season also and that’s just a heart rip out for sure.
    I do not want to get into the difference between “neat idea”, sound planning based on good concept and hard work, and “I’ve got a message.” The components to a good show are the “sound planning Based on a good concept and hard work” and not the “neat idea”. The messaging has nothing to do with that difference at all. The trolls and haters ought to stuff that notion down the same garbage hole where they get their other crazy ideas. Lex was a “neat idea”. Nora was a SEASON CONCEPT. Therfe is an example of a concrete difference. The messaging in both cases, was similar, but the hard work and the execution was the difference.
    “But I was hoping for 10 Supergirl seasons or at least as many seasons as the Flash or Arrow.” – EXACTLY! And the thing is season one “Supergirl” could have made those ten years because it was that good; that is is and was the best season for a comic book show so far you can’t convince me otherwise. I can see them saying no one goes above “Arrow” because it’s the special but we could have gotten 7 like “Flash” and that’s just the end point for all shows because again no one can go over Oliver to them. Even if you say 10 was never realistic due to costs at that point, again they could have easily done 7 or 8 and if you try to tell me her story is done that’s bull because Kara’s only had one season of her story, was other characters have had 5 years of content but Kara Danvers has been on the series since season one because they’ve been doing Klark so that doesn’t count and why does Barry Allen need 7 or 8 years to tell his story and Legends needs whatever they’re on now but Kara only needs six? It doesn’t add up!
    https://www.cbr.com/supergirl-ratings-series-low-batwoman-viewership-solid/
    I cannot explain “Legends” at all. It makes no sense. That is an EXPENSIVE show.
    https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-season-five-ratings/
    “It would have been nice if one of Clark’s kids were a female.” – yep! Again it’s like they think Clark is too “manly” to have a female child. 🙁 ? As you said the female child could be a comparison to Kara and male us ask if this is what Kara would have been like or not had Clark raised her instead. Fraternal twins exist creators!
    Too, on the nose, plus I think the “twins”, the jock being the wimp and the wimp being the jock (social messaging package) is a “neat idea” type of pitch and not the solid concept that hard work can turn into a competent series of stories, plots and characters.
    I honestly don’t even think I’d want to watch the guest appearances by our group Leslie because all I would be thinking is “they get 5 seconds because of you” you know? Again I appreciate Tyler’s words at the con they put him in a good light currently to me but at the same time I don’t want to look at Tyler in blue now because it just makes me angry. Again John I know you say it’s not because of Superman that “Supergirl” is ending but again show me another reason because there doesn’t appear to be one; even if you say it’s mutual that means on some level the network wanted it to end also which again is not a good look for them. If they really wanted to keep the series going but are ending the main for some wish of Melissa’s hypothetically then they very easily could have announced an Alex spin off but they haven’t; look how fast they announced a new season of “Stargirl” or announced Ryan Wilder…especially if they’ve known about this before Wednesday so where’s the announcement? Ok you can argue maybe Chyler doesn’t want to but still there’s the Legion even though I won’t watch it because I only care about Nia out of the group; bottom like is they could do something and they’ve done nothing which again feels to me personally it’s because they don’t care because now they have Superman like they’ve wanted since the start.
    I don’t want to see the “Supergirl” showrunners (Adler) and writing team (Simon) botch another project like Season Four and Five of “Supergirl”. I still have good memories of this run (Reign and the best of Season One), and I want the movie pitched, preferably by Guggenheim and Gates. I am going to watch the Hoechlin trainwreck for the unintended laughs and gaffs. I will watch “Batwoman” because I WANT Javicia Leslie to succeed and prove the critics wrong (Refer to trolls and haters above.). I want good concept shows to be successful (Doom Patrol and Flash) and I will try to figure out why weird shows (Legends) lurch around like the Addams Family and will not fall down.
    ==============================================================================
    “Arrow and the Canaries: When will it launch?” – probably never at this point Monty. 🙁
    It is a concept show.
    Geoff Johns’ “special”.
    I agree, it’s because of the tribute that “Stargirl” gets its large support from its creator…if it was just another show because they couldn’t get access to Wonder Woman yet then the moment they did this might go too but the tribute makes someone beyond fans fight for it.
    It goes beyond just the creator/showrunner. It goes to concept. Look at the way the show is built? Family and optimism. The message inserted is “tolerance”. The stories are built around “good” versus “evil” and the writing (The villains are FANTASTIC.) is based on characters who have motives and interests and with whom the audience can identify or at least cheer and boo. Braindead and Icicle can be sold as action figures! Ditto STRIPE and Stargirl. Do not know about Hour Dude, but Cat Lady and Owl Girl are GO!
    I too enjoy Nora Allen but we won’t see her until “Flash” ends; hopefully Lea will be back also because I really enjoyed her in that one episode. 🙂
    Are you suggesting “The Flash of All Worlds” as Joshua Williamson is completing his run, now?
    If it was all about numbers Monty Legends would have been gone years ago or at least their cast size severely cut but nothing has changed for them so I can’t see numbers meaning that much.
    See remarks above.
    You could extend lack of diversity back to “Batwoman” also because yes you have a minority playing the role but we potentially still lose diversity in the form of religion because while not shown in season one a lot of Kate Kane is Jewish and there’s only ever been one other Jewish character in the comic universe which was Felicity so that’s a lost via the reboot also.
    In the CW-verse. There is some clue that Vic Sage, The Question, was originally Jewish. Also, over at MARVEL, scratch an X-Man and find out that connection (Jubilee for example.)
    Again Monty corporations as you say are not afraid of protecting themselves so I think if it was on Melissa they would make Melissa say that to save face but they haven’t so again I don’t think it’s as “mutual” as maybe they want people to believe; it feels more like maybe Melissa understandably would like time with her child during their formative months to have those first memories and the network took it and used that as leverage to end the series because they got their Superman toy anyways so now fans can’t say they’re neglecting one over the other as it were even though they still are. They could come out now and have some release about it being on Melissa and no on but her could be Kara in their eyes but at this point for me it’ll feel like spin because it shouldn’t have taken that long; a statement like that should have accompanied the release not come weeks after. Again all I can personally feel like is they dumped “Supergirl” because of Superman and it’s just a benefit of timing with the baby for them that they don’t have to take the full blame if you will even though it’s still 80% their choice if you will because again they could have also announced Friday an Alex spin off or something but they haven’t so it’s not mutual to me no matter how much that word gets thrown out.
    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e9/b4/29/e9b4296e348a4f228c71a31160d27c52.jpg
    or
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4e/72/ef/4e72efc99707e333fac0da67dbb79eee–foghorn-leghorn-quotes-witty-sayings.jpg
    Ooh Monty, ooh Monty you know how to get me sir. 🙂 A rebooted “Birds Of Prey” could be fun if they do it right! As for Alex as Batgirl no, Alex is more Huntress than anything but still Alex needs to be your Amanda Waller type but she doesn’t go as far as Amanda at times because that’s not Alex. We need more anti-heroes on shows in this universe and Alex Danvers gives you that, so could Helena Bertinelli, so Alex should be her own thing maybe helping the Birds. If you just call the series “Birds” or “B.O.P.” you could have Alex as a complete member along with others like a Julianna Dinah Drake Canary or Katie Cassidy Black Siren (also anti-hero) and like Legends your roster is open to changing through seasons since the BOP does have a decent sized list. I would personally be hesitant to call the series “Birds Of Prey” straight out because that conjures up images of the main three leads – Oracle, Black Canary, and Huntress and if they’re not in it that’s kind of false advertising so I would say go with “B.O.P.” or “The Birds” and leave Birds Of Prey for articles. If you have at least 2 of the big 3 weekly then you can call it “Birds Of Prey”. 🙂
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fw43_NH_7Ac/Uo4flafsxkI/AAAAAAAAAXw/jhxlnZYshRI/s1600/Birds+of+Prey+017+14+Powergirl+Black+Canary.jpg
    and
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fw43_NH_7Ac/Uo4flafsxkI/AAAAAAAAAXw/jhxlnZYshRI/s1600/Birds+of+Prey+017+14+Powergirl+Black+Canary.jpg
    That is right, Aaron, I KNOW my comics lore and exactly why I want the Birds. You can slip in the retcon sideways. And it is a CONCEPT, not a neat idea. Might require some recasting…
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3GbUjLMmlQM/VMAzDSQvO0I/AAAAAAAAF-8/WXawhaUPYBM/s1600/Earth%2B2%2BWorld's%2BEnd4.jpg
    Besides… there is this other option:
    http://worldofblackheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/power-girl6.jpg
    It would be a good way to message against the haters and trolls.
    I love me some Peegee. There is even a concept I could pitch with any of those base mixes. You want sister time? Alex Danvers, meet your sister from another universe.
    In regards to Javicia’s photo, they have to change the red because it’s just making me angry; red was picked by Kate because it’s a representation of the birth stone color she and Beth share and thus I think about Kate and you don’t want me thinking about the past when you’re trying to create a new future. She can’t do yellow either because that’s too much like Batgirl’s suit but yeah they need to change the red. If she was Kate first instead of Ruby I would say it looks great but right now all I can again feel is like I’ve said they care more about the suit and the image it produces than who’s in the suit. *sigh*
    My initial thought was yellow, but then I thought about Barbara-Bat, too, then I thought of purple, but that is Stephanie Brown’s color and then I thought of… but that is Cassandra Cain’s color, so I am at a loss. Green? That should be reserved for one of the Birds.
    https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/how-jessica-cruz-became-a-green-lantern-6.png
    In the blackest night and the brightest day,
    We’ll get The Birds if I have my way.
    A Lantern, a Canary, a Kryptonian who can fly.
    A Huntress and an Oracle will be included too.
    A complete all female wrecking crew.
    Come on somebody, it’s a concept you ought to try.
    Even the fanboys will watch (And I know the reason why.)

    Reply
12. 

    Aaron on September 27, 2020 at 9:32 am

    Why “Supergirl”‘s ending sucks (especially now)!

    I told you I’m not over this.

    I want to start off first by saying I want Melissa to be happy of course so if this was a decision solely made because of her choice to be with Huxley for all his firsts then I am of course bummed still to see Kara go but I can get it. It’s great that the network feels only Melissa could ever be Kara if this again the case. That said, I’m not sold on this is the case; I think they jumped on the gift to have it not be all their choice as it were but it’s not as much about the baby coming as some would like it to be as again the CW would have jumped to have Melissa say that if it was to save face for them. They have had no issues so far saying when it’s a tweet that got someone kicked off the show or telling everyone what some producer did to explain why they’re no longer on the show so if it was just the baby I think they’d make Melissa say that. Also even if it was just the baby why not say that when she first announced it…why wait until after Fandome to say this? The news may have come out Wednesday but it wasn’t decided on Wednesday I can assure you.

    Now on to the practicals of it all, we are at a time when any difference is being attacked to the extreme and we have a possibility where that’s going to be be case for another four years if not longer so if ever there was a time we needed a show like “Supergirl”, especially in season one, it’s now!

    “Supergirl” for a long time was the only female show and it was a show certainly that leaned female heavy in cast numbers so if you wanted a female empowerment place where no one was going to push around a representation of you it’s this show! We rarely see female lead series, much less female lead comic book series, and female heavy casts are also less so as a female fan this show on that count alone was a treat to see! With some exceptions, one sadly being Kara herself past season one, the female characters were handled like the competent people they are meant to be and they were more than just sisters or love interests, they were the heroes also and it was so great to see! As I said it’s expected of women to understand male roles but the same isn’t expected of men to be able to connect to women and it’s like why – Kara is as much a hero as J’onn so why do some think men can connect to her? Men need to see shows like this to know yes women can and it’s not “propaganda”; I know not all men are this way but sadly there are numbers out there who and sadly some control things which effect a woman’s right to choose to have a life saving operation which will effect her potentially emotionally so they don’t need you on top of her telling her she’s evil, you don’t know her story. I’m trying to be as calm as I can with all of this so hopefully you get what I’m saying but yeah again we’re losing someone when we need her most as at the very least a form of escape from men trying to tell us how we should be, you’re not going to push Supergirl around, and at the most we’re losing a representative!

    People call the show preachy but it’s not, yes sometimes they could be extremely heavy handed but sometimes that’s what it takes to get some people to acknowledge the message and back when they handled things well in season one it wasn’t it just did point out some issues in the world and the imbalances faced by sexes. As Leslie’s article said it’s a tremendously bad look for the CW to end “Supergirl” just as they get the rights to a Superman show! And just touching on that for a moment you have the fact Clark’s story has been told over and over and over and over again to the point they’re going to be so limited in what they can do with him even in a family setting but with Kara they had a chance to explore the ways heroes can be different by allowing her to kill when necessary or to talk about Krypton in a way he never could because he’ll never remember it the way she personally can…they had so much potential and they’ve just thrown it away for years in the name of writing to him using her and it SUCKS! Again nothing in season one said Kara wanted to be a reporter yet what’s her job? Reporter – just like him. Kara had no issue killing as a last resort yet now she does. She had an issue with kryptonite yes but was never naive to its use for others but now she does because he in his episode said it was bad. She had a dumb fight with Lena for years because why “Luthors and Supers fight”, no Clark and Lex fight but Lena and Kara aren’t their male family members and it’s like the writers either forgot that or actively chose to ignore it. ? It’s why I can’t understand the line about six years being enough time to tell Kara’s story because we only got one year of her story in season one the rest of the time has been telling Clark tales using her because Kara in seasons 2-5 is not Kara Danvers; rarely you might see her but 99% of the time we haven’t seen Kara since season one so how is that line true?

    Again going back to representation, not only are we losing some great female content but we’re also losing queer and trans representation! Yes it’s almost a mandate jokingly that each CW show now has to have a queer character but still queer representation is still limited and good queer representation like we got with Alex is even more limited at times so to have that go is just a shame in its own right! We literally just got transgender representation with Nia Nal and Nicole Maines who is trans herself and now that’s gone! “Supergirl” was the first series on the network to have a trans character and while yes Nia could go on to be in some Legion spin off it doesn’t mean she will; yes some other series could have a trans character but it doesn’t mean they will…again it’s like so much potential and progress is going when we need it most! ☹️

    You have the loss of anti hero concepts with Alex Danvers – I know they never called her one but she was an anti hero. The CW already has an issue with not playing to their anti heroes/anti villains and they’ve only had at most 4 on the network for comic book shows so to lose their final one just feels again like more lost potential! A good quality anti hero female is again rare and so to see that go is a shame; again it’s so much being lost with this one series that it’s basically overwhelming as a fan and a female. ?

    You have the loss of the actors which is sad and yes they may get new jobs and we’ll see them again but we may also not see them again! I could see them bumping David over to Superman’s series because J’onn and Clark are friends but I think it would be in such poor taste and just scream truth if all the actors moved over because it’s illogical also from character stand points. We had so much good acting in one spot and now it’s going and again sadly this could be the last time we see some people certainly in the quality roles they are; Chyler herself has talked about this and how in other series she’s just the sister or the romance but here she got to be the hero. Nicole may from dreamer to the sidekick or just girlfriend for some else because that’s the roles women most often get – mom, sister, friend, girlfriend. Even moms on this show got to be more as we saw with Cat which again made her feel real! Eliza who was the primary mom character for the show even got times where she could showcase her science knowledge or she got to tell Jeremiah how they aren’t the same you can’t expect to just come back and act like nothing happened after 15 years. Again we have the loss of quality!

    The end of “Supergirl”, especially now, is just such a tragedy no matter how you look at it and the fact is none of the reasons for it to end make sense except for the one in which they’re ending it because they got access to Superman and that’s a really bad look for them.

    Reason: Huxley.

    Problem with the reason: Melissa has not said it was because of him she wanted to leave the show. Yes she may want time with him and it’s impractical for them to wait on her but she has yet to say she wanted to quit so that reason doesn’t work. Also there’s the fact the CW could announce an Alex spin off in which Kara could pop up whenever she wants but they haven’t so what gives? Is it because Chyler wants to be done, if so where’s her statement to that?

    Reason: It was a mutual decision.

    Problem with the reason: again Melissa hasn’t said she wanted to quit so it can’t be mutual. Also if you cared about the world of “Supergirl” you could have continued it with a spin off; just because the end was announced Wednesday doesn’t mean you knew about it Wednesday! Also you’ve had almost a week now to say something more and we’re getting nothing…I am only left to assume it’s because you for what you wanted (Superman) and now you don’t care; the network may be thankful to the series for getting them what they wanted but the care seems gone because again there’s ways to continue the world more than just doing a Superman show which no character on “Supergirl” was connected to but they haven’t yet. It’s like “Batwoman” and Caroline Dries saying she loves Kate and is dedicate to her but then she actively chooses to vote reboot instead…it leaves fans to feel like you again care more about the suit than who’s in it except with “Supergirl” they did care about who’s in the suit it seems because now that he has a show she’s out. I’m just saying they’re one short from doing the Trinity potentially and one Wonder Woman also short from doing Justice League they’re way, if they do a crossover with Superman and Batwoman as the heads and call it Justice League United don’t be surprised. They could have done it with the group they had but no.

    By it’s definition the term “mutual” means both sides so again even if you say some is on Melissa the other half is the CW wanting to play with Superman and not thinking for some odd reason you can have two supers on at the same time. Also again if they were also sad about Melissa going like fans but wanted to see the world contribute they could have announced a Legion or Alex spin off but they haven’t which feels again like they don’t care. And I think that just adds to the anger because they have to know these conversations are happening but they’re doing nothing to calm fears or address concerns and that’s a turn off to the network as a company for me which I wouldn’t have guessed would happen although the CW. It makes me wonder how much of their “Dare To Defy” campaign is just lip service and how much do they actually mean.

    Reason: Kara’s story is told.

    Problem with that reason: Kara’s only had one year out of 5 to actually have her story told; again what you saw in seasons 2-5 was Klark not Kara so it doesn’t count! Other characters had their stories being told, not always consistently thanks to that dumpster fire of season five (which I now wonder if it was such a dumpster fire because the creatives new before now six was the end and so it’s like why even try?), but Kara Danvers as fans knew and loved her hasn’t been seen really since season one as I said. Two years is not enough time to tell her story. Even if you play like she’s had six years why is it her story only takes six but “Arrow” took eight? “Flash” is on seven surely that’s too many for the fastest man alive. Again “Legends Of Tomorrow” solved their series creation mystery after season one so they’re way over their limit by that logic. Oliver got married and died on his series, Barry has been married for years and we saw his daughter on his show so if anyone’s story is done shouldn’t it be more Barry’s than Kara’s who hasn’t even met her OTP (not that she needs one right now)?

    You also had a whole season in season five wasted on Lex Luthor (Clark Kent’s main villain not Kara’s) basically so that knocks it back to only four seasons of “Supergirl” so by that logic we need another season after this one just to make six of you believe that’s honestly enough for her.

    Rating: ratings.

    Problem with that reason: “Supergirl” was still on the top 3 shows for the network and has had decent ratings every year since coming over, even with crap season five, by contrast Legends has always been near the bottom so again if anyone is going to go for a reason like this it should “Legends Of Tomorrow”.

    As Leslie’s article post said they look really bad right now and they’re doing nothing to change that image.

    Finally there’s the loss of the Maid of Steel community; do you know how hard it is to find a civilized fan space where you can disagree and feel heard in that disagreement without someone calling you “not a real fan” or “bias” and being dismissive to what you say?! The fact the community will dissolve post series is enough reason to spend hours crying! Again it’s nice to say you’ll be together forever but how practical is it? What are the odds everyone will enjoy the same show again? Even if some share another show in common there won’t be this place to talk because we’re not all on the same services and message boards sadly aren’t a thing anymore.

    I know some will say “it’s just TV show” but it’s not, “Supergirl” was hope when most thought comic book shows are meant to be dark; Kara could have down moments yes but she always wanted to be in the light more than not and not everything had to be drama all the time. As a female viewer “Supergirl” gave me content rarely seen elsewhere with its number of female cast members and the quality to which female characters were allowed to be showcased; again while other actresses get to dress up in tactical gear they rarely get to be in the action scenes to the extent of the males but Alex got to be the action hero of the series! While other series like “Grey’s Anatomy” give me a female heavy cast they’re still more often love interests or sisters but with “Supergirl” we had sisters and love interest but again they were also the heroes and we’re allowed to disagree amongst themselves without there being “teams” if you will. “Supergirl” was a place for the lesser known characters to get some limelight and show how they could be, we never needed Lex because we had Maxwell Lord and Sam Lane, yes J’onn is probably the most known of everyone but he’s still unknown in the standings of his other Justice League circles so this gave time to show him more, we got Kara who is more known for being Clark’s cousin than the awesome character she can be and that was one of the other cool things about old CW – not letting them play with the big names allowed things like “Stargirl” to happen and “Arrow” and now honestly all I can see is the comic book division becoming the big names and repeating stories we’ve seen a million times before and that’s said; “Supergirl” is the last of the lesser knowns if you will. I know there’s still “Batwoman” (it’s not Batwoman) and “Stargirl” but they got in because of Kara and now without her when they go I feel it will lead to either more male shows or basically the ending of the comic shows for the network. I know that’s television progression also it’s still sad.

    All of this lost potential and goodness is just looking at it from a surface level also, if you go into why each character and plot will be missed also it definitely becomes the tragedy I’m labeling it as!

    I wish I could say the CW will miss this series when it’s gone but I’m not sure they understand the gold they have in the series because they’re seemingly blinded by the man in blue.

    As some are saying maybe this timing isn’t intentional but the fact still remains Kara is going out as he’s coming in and that is not a good look for them and they’re doing nothing right now oddly to change that image. Again I assure you they’ve known about this news before now so they could have announced it before but they haven’t and okay you can say it’s because of Fandome and not wanting to draw attention but that’s just the fact of the situation then – in the attempt to not taint Fandome you were always going to taint this news with timing because such a big deal got made of other shows and now “Supergirl” is over…you have no one to blame but yourself CW for some of these upset feelings by fans! They could have announced it before day two of fandom and let it be about what’s to come instead of what’s leaving and given a day to talk about how the show will be missed but we’ve gotten nothing so yeah this has made me personally bitter towards the network and I will always be sad about this news.

    It may seem dramatic but the loss of “Supergirl”, especially now, is a tragedy plain and simple and I will rage about it for decades to come if not longer!

    Reply
13. 

    Montefescu on September 27, 2020 at 9:47 am

    The moderation algorithm is unhappy.

    Monty

    Reply
14. 

    Montefescu on September 27, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    If you want my data… here it is.

    https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/supergirl-ratings-53686/

    Note Season Three Distribution.

    Monty

    Reply
15. 

    Aaron on September 27, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    I want Javicia to do well also Monty, but the show shouldn’t be called “Batwoman” and she definitely shouldn’t be wearing red as her color given what it meant to Kate and why she picked it.

    “Family and optimism. The message inserted is “tolerance”.” – which “Supergirl” had.

    Green could work for Ryan’s Bat suit. Maybe blue? White would be new.

    Reply
16. 

    Montefescu on September 28, 2020 at 10:46 am

    Aaron on September 27, 2020 at 5:47 pm
    I want Javicia to do well also Monty, but the show shouldn’t be called “Batwoman” and she definitely shouldn’t be wearing red as her color given what it meant to Kate and why she picked it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misfit_(DC_Comics)

    How about that for a name?

    “Family and optimism. The message inserted is “tolerance”.” – which “Supergirl” had.

    I really think this is a bit of a loss leader in that I do not agree with much of it as to her “conservative” social consciousness bias, Aaron, but if you watch it, and remember how I come down very hard on story, character, plot logic, production values, SAFETY, and quality control for a TV series, you will see that the commenter does hit these same points. The example is “Batwoman”, but it could just as easily have been “Supergirl” Season Five. Message is not the problem. The problem, as per the examples is writing, direction, story logic, characters, and yes I do agree that there is a lot of memeing and unintended racism present in the “safe” choices of the stereotypes.

    Green could work for Ryan’s Bat suit. Maybe blue? White would be new.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Violet_Paige_(Prime_Earth)

    The “Batwoman” showrunners have so much lore they could have tried, instead of Ryan Wilder.

    Jody Houser’s “Mother Panic” (Not safe for young minds.) is kind of a mix of Electra and Black Widow in a Bat-gerbil cyborg suit. She is LGBTQ in a damaged experimented on by crazed AIM scientists as a kidnapped orphan type. Does that read like Beth to you? Only this Bat-gerbil has her character motivation in a Chinese zen-Buddhist way. She wants to kill those idiots who did these horrible things to all the many orphans they turned into monsters, like her.

    There is also an art centric theme to the class of criminals (the other orphans) and to the AIM types, who produced these living human “art pieces”.

    That is what we call a concept. You have fifty monsters, who have to be put down, the evil science organization that produced them to be destroyed, and one deranged and emotionally disturbed Bat-gerbil all dressed in White out to do it, vigilante style.

    The social commentary writes itself, inside the concept.

    Monty

    Reply
17. 

    Montefescu on September 28, 2020 at 10:52 am

    https://youtu.be/HeOhgevgPoI

    I forgot to post the video. Bear in mind that the presentation has an archaic rather narrow cultural point of view that is not a social message with which I agree at all. I do note the points about writing, production values, direction, safety of the actors and crew, story logic, cultural identity group stereotyping and some really bad acting with the examples provided, are notable and cringeworthy.

    Monty

    Reply
18. 

    Aaron on September 28, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    The difference between “Batwoman” and “Supergirl” is “Batwoman” rebooted but “Supergirl” has announced no spin offs even! I’m all for doing like “Arrow” and saying no one but X can play Y but the least they could have done is talk about spin off ideas because they don’t want the world to end. Again it feels like now that they have Superman they don’t care about the “Supergirl” side really. 🙁 So while similar the situations aren’t the same; also Ruby made her side publicity known but we’ve gotten nothing for “Supergirl”, yes you could say it’s because of the baby but Melissa hasn’t confirmed that so it feels more like an excuse than actual reason.

    “the writers of Supergirl should have done a better job understanding the character they were given to steward as they wrote her story in Season Four and Season Five.” – I would argue this should have also been the case in seasons two and three Monty as the issues started as early as the case namely when Clark Kent showed up on screen and Kara became Klark instead of the season one character we loved. True the issues weren’t always as in your face as in later seasons but they were still there. It’s also hard to care about a series when it’s just all flash and no substance which was very much the case in season five with the heavy leaning towards action rather than character stuff!

    “Breath, count to 10, and remember all the good episodes we did get.” – season one is amazing it’s true; it’s just such a disappointment they never kept to that standard with the exception of the Alex coming out plot and Reign story. That’s the saddest part to me Monty, along with the lost representation of course, there was SO much potential for this series and they wasted it doing Superman plots for Kara and trying to write her like him instead of building on the world of season one! This series could have been even more amazing with just little tweaks, or one big one – write Kara like Kara not Clark, but they never commented to it and it’s like “Why?!”. Again I’m going to be angry about this for some time.

    They need to make up their mind about Barbara; to me Oracle is the more powerful story if you will because it shows her growing and dealing with the change in her life instead of trying to act like it never happened. I get early on having that mentality but Barbara has been Oracle for decades now so just do things with her! Cassandra was Batgirl before after Helena stole the costume for a bit so it sounds like they’re just going back to the late 90s/early 00s line up.

    “Huntress: Year One” is also good but “Cry for Blood” is awesome and a quick read with only 6 issues to the story! People who are looking for Batman don’t get excited, they just used his name to push the book – it’s about Helena with a guest appearance by Vic Sage aka Question. 🙂

    Again I ask Monty if numbers matter so much how is Legends still around?

    “Better to choose HOW one dies, than to let someone else choose for you.” – still angry about all the lost potential and cautious about the final season because yes it COULD be good but that doesn’t mean it will be especially if they waste time with crossover and Lex episodes!

    DC has a right rein on Barbara Gordon so I doubt it’ll be her, again just character to character Chyler could easily transition to Huntress and they’ve already had her on “Arrow” before so the character is in play. She could be the TV version while Mary Elizabeth Winstead is the movie version; that said I will be hearing Amy Acker’s voice at first because she is my voice of Huntress and the first version I think of thanks to Bruce Timms’ Justice League cartoon series! 🙂 I’ll just miss Alex because she’s a treat! 🙁

    Season five is worse than season four to me.

    I was ok with Henry as Superman myself.

    I am grateful for elements Monty, but I’m also very sadden by the losses as well and it’s hard to be happy about everything when the good points such as seeing Chyler really get to stretch her acting chops and be amazing as Alex are things we’ll be losing once the series is ever. Again yes true we could get a spin off announced later but for right now we have nothing and so it makes the lost feel even larger.

    Reply
19. 

    Montefescu on September 28, 2020 at 11:38 pm

    Supergirl (TV Series) Episode 1.13 “For the Girl Who Has Everything” (2016)

    Directed by Dermott Downs

    Writing Credits
    Otto Binder … (based on characters created by) and
    Al Plastino … (based on characters created by)

    Ted Sullivan … (teleplay by) &
    Derek Simon … (teleplay by)

    Andrew Kreisberg … (story)

    Caitlin Parrish … (executive story editor)

    Cast (in credits order)
    Melissa Benoist … Kara Danvers / Supergirl
    Mehcad Brooks … James Olsen
    Chyler Leigh … Alex Danvers
    Jeremy Jordan … Winn Schott
    David Harewood … Hank Henshaw / J’onn J’onzz
    Calista Flockhart … Cat Grant
    Peter Facinelli … Maxwell Lord
    Laura Benanti … Alura Zor-El / Astra
    Chris Vance … Non
    Robert Gant … Zor-El
    Daniel DiMaggio … Kal-El
    Briana Venskus … Agent Vasquez
    Sarah Robson … DEO Doctor
    Christopher Showerman … Tor

    Superman Annual 11 1984 is the source material for this Kreisberg story. Alan Moore wrote it in 1984.

    a. Kal-ex is the John Byrne invented El butler robot when he redid Superman’s origin 1986.
    b. Argo plague is similar to terrestrial malaria.
    c. The city is Argo.
    d. Duration of the dream is in story stated to be two weeks.
    e. Speculation (on my part) is that this Myriad upload is some kind of Brainiac infestation that will take over all terrestrial robots..
    f. Mongol’s role in the Moore story is repleted and remodeled to fit Non.
    g. Kara made a 3-d metal statue of a Argosian lizard raptor for her dad, which she will use as a chekov later.

    ———————————————————————–

    Story structure

    Again a very simple story is on display here. The A story is a story framed inside a B story (dream illusion sequence inside a real story about bringing the dream victim back from a state of illusion. The C story is tacked on as a comedic bit as friends tried to cover the implied absence of the protagonist from her “real existence” being noticed.

    Within that framework the A story shows us a slice of life Krypton which gives us substantial clues about what Kryptonians are implied to be. From what we see of Kandor City, we have a version of the family El Jetsons that would make Mister Cosmo Spacely feel right at home. I certainly received the George Jetson vibe from Zor-el. The mostly mute Kal=el could have passed for Elroy while the Alura character was about as stiff as any Jane Jetson. In other words, until Chyler Leigh shows up as Alex to lend some emotional color to this rote role A-story, Krypton was a cartoon version of reality.

    The C-story, played for laughs features a cackling Max Lord who builds a Vee-are helmet so that Alex can share Kara’s dream. Villains R’ Us skunked the screen up as usual.

    Meanwhile in a repeat of the standard Martian Manhunter Gag, Melissa Benoist plays Hank Henshaw playing the Martian, playing her as Kara Danvers trying to fool Cat again. It was neither funny nor necessary to this story and should have been written out, freeing up time for…

    … Non and Astra squabbling over Kara, while the Fort Rozz banditos introduce the Myriad virus (Brainiac) into all the six satellite servers that Max Lord’s cybernetic empire runs around National City. In this confused storyline, Alex kills Astra by a stab in the back attack, and allows Hank Henshaw to take the blame for it.

    In the end, after the mind-rape Non practiced on Supergirl, the Cat and J’onn J’onnz comedy routine, Alex killing Astra with reckless abandon again, the bungled attempts by Jimmy and Wynn to cover from their end of it, Kara’s absence and the obligatory beatings Max takes from Alex and Non takes from Kara, it is all tied up with a nice cheerful comedy bow “family get together” with pot stickers and ice cream.

    Are you kidding me with this shite? Alex flat out murdered Kara’s aunt with that stab in the back.

    How is that act not inconsequential? Never mind the Myriad infection or the mind rape which are also plot elements that are left dangling in mid air. GRRR.

    Production of the show was above average in all departments, even the writing which was no-good as usual, but at the least these; writers told a coherent story.

    Acting continued to exceed the writing quality by an entire order of magnitude.

    Direction was fair to good with my only complaint being the Kara Non fight. Non is a wuss. He did not throw one believable punch. A two year old with a lollypop could kill this boob.

    Rate this episode as 3/5/5. Kreisberg frankly blew it.

    Monty

    What a difference four years makes.

    ===============================================================

    Let me just point out what I took away this time around.

    First, pacing was incredibly fast. Sometimes a story must be simplified because of time constraints to make the content fit into time allotted.

    Second, Star Trek type episode shorthand, expecting the viewers to fill in background details, under the forty four minute time constraints, will not work with universe building demanded for this episode. I guess Kreisberg forgot the cardinal rule of comic book adaptation to TV episode: Keep it simple, keep it clear, and stay within the story frame to encapsulate, character, plot and theme.

    Incidentally, I noticed the Derek Simon incompetencies present in his rewrites for Chyler’s speeches to Peter Facinelli and David Harewood. Misplaced commas, and semi-colons, dropped articles and syntax and word order errors had Ms, Leigh trying to gabble out sentence strings that had me doing spit takes when she was whining at the hologram Alura and when she was kneeling on Facinelli’s chest. I could tell that “Max Lord” was doing everything he could to keep a straight face in scene.

    Speaking of unintended humor, the thing about “For the Man Who Has Everything” written by Alan Moore, that made it such a tale of horror, is that “the dream” never was allowed to be patched into a comedic frame. I am sure that Kreisberg thought he advanced the Cat/Kara story and that using Martian shapeshifter abilities would be a good gag for this episode in the B-story, but it throws the tone off and detracts from the main A-story. The horror of what Non did to Kara is minimized.

    At least for a while…

    Act Four is PURE GOLD. Dragging Kara out of the Black Mercy drug dream hinged on Chyler’s ability to deliver the “life is pain” and “family is love” speech. That was well executed television. By the same token, Astra’s death, which was a bit of Hamlet, was also well done. I think I would not have pulled that trigger so soon in this season, but it is a drama moment that brings home further the price to be paid for “real life”, which is death.

    I agree that the writing choice to set up the Martian Manhunter Lie and the implied schism between J’onn J’onzz was a good plot progression point. It will be mishandled and botched in future episodes, but for now the tension point actually worked. Solid writing.

    ==============================================================

    And then we get the coda. Leave the audience happy is the mantra. Do not bum them out. Now that is the thing. Defeat and loss is part of normal life, and so is change. But in the final scene in Kara’s apartment, it is potstickers, ice cream, a bottle of scotch and laughter and argh.

    This is what killed the episode for me now. To mean something, to keep the audience invested, the downer has to be a story risk.

    And both Kreisberg and Simon were too chicken to stay the course.

    Simon is an incompetent hack, so I expect garbage from him and I get it. But Kreisberg was a professional storyteller.

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132610/

    He knew better.

    So four years later, despite that great fourth act? Rate it Acting, Directing, Writing… 5/5/3 out of 5/5/5.

    So… while much has changed in how I see it, this time, the end result remains.

    See how one utterly incompetent writer can hurt even what should be a great episode?

    Monty

    Reply
20. 

    Aaron on September 29, 2020 at 7:25 am

    Caitlin Parrish – this is someone who DEFINITELY NEEDS to return for the final season; had she not been transferred to another project I wonder what the series could have been. Would it sill have had issues or would she have made sure Kara was written like herself instead of her cousin?

    I would say the dream zone was meant to seem too good Monty because Kara was just a child when she was experiencing all this despite adult Kara being the one in the dream so of course it’s heavily edited as Kara did not know a lot about what her parents were involved in so yes it’s flat but intentionally perhaps?

    You didn’t like Kara!J’onn?! She was hilarious I thought! 🙂

    “Alex flat out murdered Kara’s aunt with that stab in the back.” – she totally did; I love Alex but that was a bad on her part. Something else we never see come back into play. 🙁 Yes Kara forgave her but it doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been used against her by someone else.

    “What a difference four years makes.” – I’d argue what a difference caring makes; again so much time for wasted not building on season one and writing Kara as her cousin and then they wasted time on dumb drama because they think Lena and Kara are Clark and Lex for some reason…season five is just horrible all together so yeah it’s more the loss of care I would argue or ego getting to some more than the loss of ability to write stories.

    Totally agree that Astra got killed too early! That was such a huge moment for Alex and could have been huge in character stuff moving forward so I’m mixed about changing the outcome but it was too early I will quickly agree.

    I like “For The Girl Who Has Everything”, mainly because of Alex content I have to admit and the good use of the Black Mercy to take Kara down for a bit and yes I even enjoy Kara!J’onn and Cat, so I put it on my top list; I look forward to hearing what everyone else has to say on it! 🙂

    Reply
21. 

    Montefescu on September 29, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    Aaron on September 28, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    The difference between “Batwoman” and “Supergirl” is “Batwoman” rebooted but “Supergirl” has announced no spin offs even! I’m all for doing like “Arrow” and saying no one but X can play Y; but the least they could have done is talk about spin off ideas because they don’t want the world to end. Again it feels like now that they have Superman they don’t care about the “Supergirl” side really. 🙁 So while similar the situations aren’t the same; also Ruby made her side publicity known but we’ve gotten nothing for “Supergirl”, yes you could say it’s because of the baby but Melissa hasn’t confirmed that so it feels more like an excuse than actual reason.

    1. Supergirl spin-off. The showrunners will argue Superman and Lois ‘is’ the spinoff. And possibly the reboot. I do not happen to like the concept or agree that the acting leads are capable to carry it forward, or that Chris Helbing knows what he is doing. That is my opinion. I will say this much further since I think I can actually back it with evidence. Originally, Andrew Kreisberg, from what I could find in the public records was going to honcho the show. He either pitched the idea or was working on Superman and Lois as far back as 2017, maybe earlier. I do not know exactly when he was zero-filed and Helbing brought in to take over the project, but I can date when Helbing took over the honcho job. That was when Kreisberg was fired from all WB affiliated projects.

    What has this got to do with Supergirl? It is apparent to me, that bringing in “Superman” was not dependent on canceling “Supergirl”. The massive fall in writer produced quality of episodes (See data post above.) for Season Four and Season Five is coincident in time with the firing of Kreisberg and the elevation of Simon.

    Now, from what I can find, Kreisberg HAD TO GO. His alleged activities and behavior was a massive morale, legal and ethical problem and it “appears” that it was serious enough that people were severely harmed by his activities. But with that necessity, comes a huge problem.

    I call it the Harvey Weinstein dilemma. You might have a human being whose personal morals, beliefs and behavior are totally unacceptable by any decent, legal, or ethical standard; but that human being knows his job and can write, and produce good product. Witness “For the Girl Who Has Everything” as the example to be used for Kreisberg. But, get rid of the person, (justifiably), and replace that person with someone who is utterly incompetent (Simon) and what happens?

    Season Four and Five of Supergirl is what happens. Meanwhile, the “Superman and Lois” pitch is still there and now someone else is working the details. What I mean to show (bad pun), is that the coincidence of “Supergirl” coming to a close, and “Superman and Lois” starting is mostly coincidence, but that there could or might be a “speculative” causal link in that an incident or decision taken in the past brought on the event chain we see.

    Caitlin Parrish

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9564862/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5326239/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Parrish

    She was not chosen for Supergirl. It may be that she had her own pet project which she pitched or that Berlanti tapped her for something else. I do not know. I can only track what is published and show what the evidence suggested. I have seen nothing since 2019, which surprised me a bit.

    “The writers of Supergirl should have done a better job understanding the character they were given to steward as they wrote her story in Season Four and Season Five.” – I would argue this should have also been the case in seasons two and three Monty as the issues started as early as the case namely when Clark Kent showed up on screen and Kara became Klark instead of the season one character we loved.

    Season Three gave us Reign and the witchy-poos. If one was going to rip-off Mike Johnson and Mike Green (the 2Mikes) one should have used Derek Simon’s salary to hire them as story consultants and produced a coherent story frame instead of the “stupid idea of the week” format that was attempted. I have no problem with the Lena/Sam Arias story thread as developed, because it gave Lena something to do and show instead of being a “presence” as a substitute Luthor, but Murphy, it should have been THE SEASON CONCEPT with side plots ginning from it, instead of the mess we got. I still think it was better executed than forgettable Season Two or the garbage which followed it.

    That Season Three, I argue, was Kara, not “Klark”. I could see Reign (Odette Annabel) putting Tyler Hoechlin six feet under in the acting sense in just one scene, just the same way Brandon Routh did in “Crisis”. Melissa could “stay” with Odette, scene for scene. “Klark”, which I will now with your permission, use for “Tiny Superman”, could not.

    True the issues weren’t always as in your face as in later seasons but they were still there. It’s also hard to care about a series when it’s just all flash and no substance which was very much the case in season five with the heavy leaning towards action rather than character stuff!

    Season Five was an attempted correction to repair the damage wrought by the incompetent “Liberty, Liberty Insurance Agent” storyline. The problem is that when a panicked committee of showruiners (not a misspelling), tries to correct a problem that they see in their data, they never look deep enough. As per above, MESSAGE, is not the problem. Story-telling is. If one cannot make Agent Liberty work in Season Four beyond the one “He grew into it.” episode the writers tried, then do not use the trope and FIRE THE WRITER. Ben could have worked. But, the “enemy ace” is hard to write. One has to understand that what makes the “enemy ace” worthy as an adversary, is the WHY he must be destroyed. A monster can be one to you because she/he is just a cardboard villain who fits the target silhouette, or she/he can be a human being who has to be stopped, because she/he has apparently good motives but remains base root evil as to those motives through the MEANS chosen. Icicle from “Stargirl” has to be stopped, because he would kill millions to bring on utopia as he conceives it. It is simple to see, but hard to write.

    Astra has to be stopped for the same reason; because she employs wrong methods and means and cannot see why she is evil. Ras al Ghul from “Arrow” has to go because he fits the same model misguided villain trope.

    Derek Simon had his chance with Ben to “enemy ace” him and all we got from it was “Cardboard Stalin”. Godwins do not sell characters.

    “Breath, count to 10, and remember all the good episodes we did get.” – season one is amazing it’s true; it’s just such a disappointment they never kept to that standard with the exception of the Alex coming out plot and Reign story. That’s the saddest part to me Monty, along with the lost representation of course, there was SO much potential for this series and they wasted it doing Superman plots for Kara and trying to write her like him instead of building on the world of season one! This series could have been even more amazing with just little tweaks, or one big one – write Kara like Kara not Clark, but they never commented (committed) to it and it’s like “Why?!”. Again I’m going to be angry about this for some time.

    I enter pure speculation territory as I try another way to answer that question. I have no respect for Ali Adler. She would come up with a neat idea and then botch it in producer execution by forgetting that story-telling comes first because that is how the message is packaged.

    Andrew Kreisberg is another matter. If you know what I mean by Eddie Berganza, then you know what I think his “alleged problem” was. Part of the result, I saw, was that he chaffed under the restrictions of “Supergirl” He wanted Klark. He got Kara. He tried to write Kara, but the wrong part of his point of view got in the way, if you follow my chain of thought.

    Now as to the rest of the writing crew? Robert Royvner, Jessie Queller and Caitlin Parrish got it. There is a way to write the female point of view. I wrote about this writer hurdle, male writers face a while back, but it comes down to lack of imagination of how a woman has to operate in her reality, not as a man does. If one looks at the character, Cat Grant, one sees that Callista Flockhart must have had some input to the writers. There is a lot of ‘Ally McBeal’ steaming off the Cat, when she powers through on charisma points alone. “Q” is a weapon! Then as in the episode, “For the Girl Who Has Everything”, we get the unrealistic Chyler scenes with Peter Facinelli. Women cannot physically power through the way men do in those situations. It just looks ridiculous and funny. Gun to the head, Derek. THAT is what Chyler could and should have done. Or maybe try a “Q” approach. Ms. Leigh plainly shows by the middle of Season Three that she can. So why not write it the way a woman would do it? because the writer “thinks like a man”? Nonsense. I just showed you how. LACK OF IMAGINATION. Chyler could have used a revolver, specifically. Spin the cylinder. Give Max a choice. Ruthless cold, is better than fake fury for a feminine point of view.

    It goes deeper than just building on Season One, in other words. One has to commit to the different world view, write to it, and sell it.

    Brains over brawn is just the starter. When Flash says in the first Supergirl/Flash crossover, “let’s settle it like women” or some such nonsense line, it has to come out that way in action. How do women settle conflicts on Supergirl? There is your first big problem in a nutshell. They are not men with a different silhouette.

    Guess Callista Flockhart was a huge inspiration hole when she left the show.

    =======================================================

    They need to make up their mind about Barbara; to me Oracle is the more powerful story if you will because it shows her growing and dealing with the change in her life instead of trying to act like it never happened. I get early on having that mentality but Barbara has been Oracle for decades now so just do things with her! Cassandra was Batgirl before after Helena stole the costume for a bit so it sounds like they’re just going back to the late 90s/early 00s line up.

    Oh, man. Do not get me started on how outraged when I read that Oracle was being fridged for Gail Simone’s vanity project back in the New 52 era. What was infuriating was Ms. Simone’s blindness to the very issue in comics she famously championed after Stephanie Brown was “murdered”, Sue Dibney was “murdered”, and the treatments given to Pee Gee, Ms. Marvel and name a female superhero in the era who was not Byrned, Berganzaed or worse. The female characters were being treated, for over two decades, as story excuses for Crazy Hal Jordan type storylines, the Justice League going after Doctor Light, and whatnot for teenage boy fantasy roaring rampage plots that seem to have infected story editors and incompetent writers as a cheap way to sell comics in the 90s and early 10s. This was during and after efforts that were Peter Allan David’s Supergirl and Chris Claremont’s X-Men.

    Then Gayle comes along and “fridges” Oracle. Kind of missing the POINT of it all? Barbara Bat was diminished. Gayle did not understand the character and that was when I knew that she was a limited viewpoint writer, who could not carry her Secret Six quality work into new territory. NO EMPATHY.

    “Huntress: Year One” is also good but “Cry for Blood” is awesome and a quick read with only 6 issues to the story! People who are looking for Batman don’t get excited, they just used his name to push the book – it’s about Helena with a guest appearance by Vic Sage aka Question. 🙂

    Agreed.

    Again I ask Monty if numbers matter so much how is Legends still around?

    The reason Miles Morales survived, and Jaime Reis, likewise, after their creators moved on, is because there was a fanbase IN THE COMPANY, that loved the characters and pushed them beyond the cancellation cutoff logic of sales numbers. Maybe “Legends” has that same “character shield”. It cannot be the ‘Captain Marvel’ logic, because there the $ reason is that Marvel looked around for their own ‘Wonder Woman’ movie project and Carol Danvers was all they had in the character lineup. it can be therefore argued that another reason could be used in the case of why characters, shows and projects are carried through when the numbers say, “No.” and do not do it.

    EGO is a reason. (^^^) DC/Warner is still trying to get back at Marvel for embarrassing “Superman; Man of Stupid” with a talking raccoon.

    https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP._bI8ZL6RPNSZS4ZRF4uoSAHaFc?pid=Api&rs=1

    =-============================================================

    “Better to choose HOW one dies, than to let someone else choose for you.” – still angry about all the lost potential and cautious about the final season because yes it COULD be good but that doesn’t mean it will be especially if they waste time with crossover and Lex episodes!

    I cannot predict Season 6. I cannot give any comment on what is not yet known or predictable. (I could, but then I would be like certain trolls, who speculate without evidence. I am not one of those.).

    DC has a right rein on Barbara Gordon so I doubt it’ll be her, again just character to character Chyler could easily transition to Huntress and they’ve already had her on “Arrow” before so the character is in play. She could be the TV version while Mary Elizabeth Winstead is the movie version; that said I will be hearing Amy Acker’s voice at first because she is my voice of Huntress and the first version I think of thanks to Bruce Timms’ Justice League cartoon series! 🙂 I’ll just miss Alex because she’s a treat! 🙁

    Amy Acker actually may be courtesy of Dwayne McDuffie? I think it may be possible to “invent” something for Chyler. After all, the more I look at Javicia Leslie, (And I am now more hopeful that she can pull it off.) the more I think a better actress could actually do something in the Bat-gerbil outfit. It just depends on the role and the Bat-gerbil outfit.

    https://comicsalliance.com/files/2017/02/MOPA_03_pg4.jpg?w=630&h=968&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89

    Season five is worse than season four to me.

    Different mistakes, and I see the number drop, so yeah, Season Five is a bit worse with the midseason cross-over being the lemming leap point for the numbers drop.

    I was ok with Henry as Superman myself. Emo-boy Snyder Superman is too Superboy Prime. No Sale American.

    http://pooke.thedreamisdead.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/killYouToDeath.jpg

    I am grateful for elements Monty, but I’m also very saddened by the losses as well and it’s hard to be happy about everything when the good points such as seeing Chyler really get to stretch her acting chops and be amazing as Alex are things we’ll be losing once the series is ever. Again yes true we could get a spin off announced later but for right now we have nothing and so it makes the lost feel even larger.

    There is saying…

    “Grief is the most common shared experience that no-one understands, except the person who feels it, and for each person, it is different, therefore no-one understands your grief, except you.”

    There is another way to look at it…

    There is a right order to things in ENTROPY. That means it is a difference between mourning a TV show, being disappointed that a sense of representation is lost and something precious and irreplaceable is taken from us. I hate to write it, Aaron, but my sense of proportion is that “Supergirl” is something to be cherished by me for the joy it gave and still gives, as I look back at it. I will not mourn it. I will celebrate it. And wait for the next good one to come along to experience it. That process is the way of the universe that things pass. When they do, we have the gift of our memory to cherish what it was and what it still is as long as we remember it.

    Monty

    Reply
22. 

    Montefescu on September 30, 2020 at 10:17 pm

    https://youtu.be/EfJ9W7oZRO4

    You may have your stomach turned as I had mine. How are you as a truth-reader? You can do the additional research. I, however, am no longer wondering if my “ugh” reaction to a certain individual when I saw him through the monitor was accurate.

    The camera does not lie.

    Monty

    https://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/melissa-benoist

    Reply
    • 

      Montefescu on September 30, 2020 at 11:38 pm

      https://youtu.be/PI2I_AsdYWw

      It is what it is. Once again, one can do the research and can find the data needed. There was an intevener, unnamed, who apparently prevented a greater tragedy.. Note that the opinions expressed in the video are not mine.

      The physical damage claimed was apparently permanent, and I regret that it was not handled the way to the finish that it should have been prosecuted.

      You cannot imagine my anger.

      Monty

      Reply
23. 

    Aaron on October 1, 2020 at 6:23 am

    “The showrunners will argue Superman and Lois ‘is’ the spinoff.” – which it very much is NOT; a spin off for “Supergirl” would be a series featuring first and foremost of course Alex Danvers! After her would be something featuring Nia solo or Nia with Brainy in some Legion show (which I probably wouldn’t watch except for Nia at times). Then finally a Lena series but let’s be honest she’ll either be written out all together from the show world or bumped over to another series to try and get ratings just like you know they’ll probably try and bump over David to get J’onn fans to watch the Superman series (not going to work for me; make one of the twins a girl and we’ll talk).

    I know Caitlin was tapped to be over “Red Line” which was going to be on CBS which I never heard of actually airing despite there being a trailer for the series but after that I’ve heard nothing which is strange given her talent!

    I’ll be honest and say season two is only memorable to me because of Alex and Maggie; if not for that amazing storyline yes season two would be pretty forgettable compared to the rest. As for season three, my only issue with Lena’s involvement was when Sam asked to bring in Alex she didn’t and there should have been more addressed on that; sadly I think season three suffers from wasting too much time on the Mon stuff and Legion appearance. Reign should have been the focus of season three not them even if Brainy has been a nice addition; season four should have been Sam dealing with the fallout and coming to terms with her powers and they allow Kara to be her teacher thus fulfilling that goal in her life to be a mentor because she never got to be that for Clark and let’s be real Mon was trained more by Winn than her so he doesn’t count. Yes this would mean half the season would focus on Sam but let’s be honest it’s not the first time half the season has been about someone else (season two = Mon and season five = Lex)! You could have used Sam to show how different situations cause people to fight crime differently and while Kara does kill at times unlike her cousin she doesn’t make it her first move where as maybe Sam feels that’s the way to deal with gang members and so you build on the shades of a hero – again embrace antiheroes writers! Also you could have explored how Sam is different from Kara and Clark to expand on Krytonian history and maybe as you say Monty bring in more on Kara’s father’s involvement into things!

    You can use Klark but I am going to think of it as Kara being written as Clark still. 🙂

    Ah Icicle…his idea was not bad I have to maintain, peace would be a good thing but yeah the 1 versus 100 debate is intense for a reason when you can’t pick who gets to be the one taken out. He’s definitely one of those villains with depth where you can cheer him on but sometimes feel dirty for it. It’s like Max, he’s a villain for his actions but he’s not always entirely wrong in his comments. Ha.

    Alex is a weapon so I don’t think she would have needed the gun but if she did pull it on him it wouldn’t be out of character. Alex Danvers is an antihero and that should have been embraced more!

    Reply
24. 

    Montefescu on October 1, 2020 at 11:49 am

    Aaron on October 1, 2020 at 6:23 am

    “The showrunners will argue Superman and Lois ‘is’ the spinoff.” – which it very much is NOT; a spin off for “Supergirl” would be a series featuring first and foremost of course Alex Danvers! After her would be something featuring Nia solo or Nia with Brainy in some Legion show (which I probably wouldn’t watch except for Nia at times). Then finally a Lena series but let’s be honest she’ll either be written out all together from the show world or bumped over to another series to try and get ratings just like you know they’ll probably try and bump over David to get J’onn fans to watch the Superman series (not going to work for me; make one of the twins a girl and we’ll talk).

    Fire Tyler Hoe4chlin and teach Elizabeth Tulloch how to pronounce “th”. The boy twins do not bother me. Sarah Schecter, as a producer, BOTHERS me. I do not think she is a good show-runner.

    I know Caitlin was tapped to be over “Red Line” which was going to be on CBS which I never heard of actually airing despite there being a trailer for the series but after that I’ve heard nothing which is strange given her talent!

    It bombed. The audience kickback was AWFUL. I think it was around 56% at the test of the PILOT. That may be some indicator why we have not seen it on mainstream TV. They only did a few limited Season 1 episodes. Season 2 was hung up and SKed. I do not know if we will ever see it produced.

    Back to Season 2 Supergirl.

    I’ll be honest and say season two is only memorable to me because of Alex and Maggie; if not for that amazing storyline yes season two would be pretty forgettable compared to the rest. As for season three, my only issue with Lena’s involvement was when Sam asked to bring in Alex she didn’t and there should have been more addressed on that; sadly I think season three suffers from wasting too much time on the Mon stuff and Legion appearance. Reign should have been the focus of season three not them even if Brainy has been a nice addition; season four should have been Sam dealing with the fallout and coming to terms with her powers and they allow Kara to be her teacher thus fulfilling that goal in her life to be a mentor because she never got to be that for Clark and let’s be real Mon was trained more by Winn than her so he doesn’t count. Yes this would mean half the season would focus on Sam but let’s be honest it’s not the first time half the season has been about someone else (season two = Mon and season five = Lex)! You could have used Sam to show how different situations cause people to fight crime differently and while Kara does kill at times unlike her cousin she doesn’t make it her first move where as maybe Sam feels that’s the way to deal with gang members and so you build on the shades of a hero – again embrace antiheroes writers! Also you could have explored how Sam is different from Kara and Clark to expand on Krytonian history and maybe as you say Monty bring in more on Kara’s father’s involvement into things!

    Concept versus “neat idea”.

    I agree with about 80% of the idea content Aaron.

    Mon-el Railroad did serve a purpose as an audience hook.

    https://youtu.be/PQ8Z89h9TI4

    He was a “shipper hook” as well as a story excuse for Daxamite Dummies R’Us alien space invaders for the season.

    You can use Klark but I am going to think of it as Kara being written as Clark still. 🙂

    Klark could be “Klerk”. I like that. 😉

    Ah Icicle…his idea was not bad I have to maintain, peace would be a good thing but yeah the 1 versus 100 debate is intense for a reason when you can’t pick who gets to be the one taken out. He’s definitely one of those villains with depth where you can cheer him on but sometimes feel dirty for it. It’s like Max, he’s a villain for his actions but he’s not always entirely wrong in his comments. Ha.

    Philosophically, Aaron, if I meet someone who prizes an idea over the suffering its implementation will cause and who has presented no plan or proposal at all to mitigate the suffering, that idea will cause: it is when I point out that the underpinnings of the idea as presented is “evil” and must be rejected on the grounds of humanistic morality. Icicle will not only kill “wrong thinkers” but he will leave orphans in the wake of his “New America”. This would make even his mitigation plan of orphanages and foster homes unacceptable as an excuse for his crazy “evil” plan, since the human empathic element is completely missing. The first rule after “how can I help to make it better” in a moral choice is to “DO NO HARM”.

    Alex is a weapon so I don’t think she would have needed the gun but if she did pull it on him it wouldn’t be out of character. Alex Danvers is an antihero and that should have been embraced more!

    Anti-heroes are not villains and they are not tools. They are human beings who operate in the interstices of morality where the hard choices must be made. Refer to “DO NO HARM” and ask why Alex stabbed Astra? The level of harm Astra would have caused versus the level of harm Alex (If the writing had held up.) would have caused to the “sisters” to the House of El and to Kara. Alex had to choose between evils. That is actually what an “anti-hero” according to Campbell does; accepts the burden of evil that such a choice brings on the self when she/he acts. David Harewood as hank Henshaw even lectures Alex about the principle when he tells her why he lied to cover for Alex, so Alex does not have to shoulder the “evil” she caused. Alex is Kara’s hero. BDM shoulders the blame and guilt in a deflection to minimize the “HARM” to Alex.

    Monty

    Reply
25. 

    Aaron on October 1, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    I will admit Icicle’s plan was not fully thought out and only part of the team was committed to the idea, but the things he wanted to accomplish like the cure for cancer are good deeds so as you said you have a case of good idea but bad execution and it makes Icicle the hero of his own mind which they say the best villains always are because they usually have some depth to them beyond just being evil because evil.

    Why did Alex stab Astra? Simply: jealousy in my opinion. I grant some of her action was based in protecting J’onn but certainly not all of it; that was a very personal kill and why I say it’s one of the only times you can really point with Alex and say she did bad. I definitely have words about Alex killing Astra in my episode review for FTGWHE! 🙂 It’s a great moment for character stuff for Alex. I find I like the anti characters more than straight villains or heroes because they are more complex – see Huntress versus even Batgirl.

    Alex isn’t Lyla Michels level or certainly not aamanda Waller level but I would still call her an anti hero. 🙂

    Reply
26. 

    Montefescu on October 1, 2020 at 8:13 pm

    Aaron on October 1, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    I will admit Icicle’s plan was not fully thought out and only part of the team was committed to the idea, but the things he wanted to accomplish like the cure for cancer are good deeds so as you said you have a case of good idea but bad execution and it makes Icicle the hero of his own mind which they say the best villains always are because they usually have some depth to them beyond just being evil because evil.

    The point of creating characters like Icicle is to illustrate that villainy and evil is subtle. It takes makes subtle thinking in this day and age to ferret out the “villains with good press”, especially when the villain in question either owns or can manipulate the press in question. Also, just because an idea “looks or sounds good” does not mean it is not replete with evil side effects or unintended harmful consequences.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734684/

    Smart guy, Rod Serling. He foresaw many of our problems today.

    Why did Alex stab Astra? Simply: jealousy in my opinion. I grant some of her action was based in protecting J’onn but certainly not all of it; that was a very personal kill and why I say it’s one of the only times you can really point with Alex and say she did bad. I definitely have words about Alex killing Astra in my episode review for FTGWHE! 🙂 It’s a great moment for character stuff for Alex. I find I like the anti characters more than straight villains or heroes because they are more complex – see Huntress versus even Batgirl.

    There might have been a tinge of evil there.

    I am not convinced that Alex was jealous. It was more specifically brutal… her moptivation.

    Alex isn’t Lyla Michels level or certainly not Amanda Waller level but I would still call her an anti hero. 🙂

    https://youtu.be/6KJuJvm3_m4

    I would. Good is not nice. It can be downright awful.

    Monty

    Reply
27. 

    Montefescu on October 6, 2020 at 8:50 am

    Heads up. Work and duty calls> I may be gone for a couple of months.

    Monty

    Reply
    • 

      Aaron on October 6, 2020 at 11:55 am

      Will miss you, Monty; stay safe!

      I’ll do my best to hold down the after show! 🙂

      Reply