Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:44:43 — 61.1MB) | Embed
[sc:mstop]
“All About Eve” is actually -just like the rest of the season- all about Lex. Lex sets up Eve as the bait for our Superfriends to follow the trail until the culmination of his long-con comes together with his Red Daughter impersonating Supergirl to bring the world against her. Oh, and James has got some serious PTSD going on with Lex now having tried to kill him eight times. Thankfully his sister is a trauma counselor. Convenient, eh Comrade?
Team Eve
Alex storms in Lena’s office to find her tied to her chair still groggy from the knockout gas that Otis gave her. The letter left on her desk is from Lex and reveals that Eve is the key in how Lex knew what he knew and how he outsmarted Lena the whole time. Supergirl comes to the DEO and while the alarms are going off she comes bearing doughnuts wanting to work with the DEO to find Lex. Col Haley explains that Lex is not their deal but is convinced when Supergirl shares that Lex has super powers. (No mention of how she got out from under the Daily Planet planet) Alex suggests that she and Agent Dox can be assigned to help with the search for Lex and Haley agrees. Supergirl gives Alex the James Olsen watch that calls her to the scene at the push of a button and she and Brainy have a very nice moment where she gives him his Legion ring back. Alex goes to Lena for information about Eve and Lena wants in on the investigation. Alex warns her that she’s also working with Supergirl and Lena realizes that their differences are not as important as finding and stopping Eve and Lex. They come up with a lead in Mary Tessmacher so they button push Supergirl to join them in the burbs where she is brought up to speed that Eve is the lynchpin and that she’s in love with Lex and henceforth is titled “Crazy Lex-Girlfriend.” (Okay, HA! I’ll give ’em that one.) At Mary’s house they meet Cousin Bitsie who Lena puts together is the cousin that was sick and now it seems she’s right as rain. Bitsie turns angry and apparently has powers. Supergirl assures her they’re not going to take her healing away so she tells them of a secret lab at NCU where Eve worked in secret. At the lab Supergirl makes the discovery that Harun-El is the science behind all of this super powered weirdness. Lena confesses that she gave SuperMom all that she had but that she made more. Supergirl is angry that the recklessness of this has led to a super powered megalomaniac and Lena and Alex both argue that this science has also led to a lot of good, including saving James’ life. Lena also accuses Supergirl of seeing red any time she feels threatened. Supergirl relents and agrees that Lena is right. She does see red but not because of ego; but, because she feels the weight of the world on her shoulders with Superman on Argo and therefore she can’t be weak. She can’t lose. She apologizes to Lena and asks for bygones. Lena thanks her for her words and understanding. All is well. They continue to explore the lab. They find out Otis was brought back through Metallo technology and Supergirl finds the gun that Eve used to shoot James. And another failed Metallo test subject comes to life and tries to kill Supergirl. Lena comes up with a bomb that she and Alex use to take out “Frankenberry,” as moniker-ed by Lena. (Okay, HA! twice) They also put together that Lex and Ben Lockwood are connected. So, Supergirl is headed to DC and stopping off first to deliver the Lex-bad-news to James that Eve popped him. Lena is headed for a heart-to-heart with Mommy Dearest Luthor. In DC Eve (actually in this episode less than one minute of screen time) is telling Red Daughter her assignment. She bends the will of the Senator to repeal the Alien Amnesty Act and gets away using the image inducer. Red Daughter comes to the Oval Office where Ben, Ben’s son George, and James are all assembled to do a press conference. She laser eyes the place and people to shreds. And she burns an image on top of the White House that we don’t see finalized. Eve has set a trap for Supergirl so once she breaks free she sees and realizes that there’s another “her” in the skies above the White House. She is appropriately horrified. President Baker declares martial law and names Supergirl “Public Enemy Number One” saying that the world trusted her for safety and she used her powers to lash out because of the repeal. Alex and Col Haley are watching the announcement in the DEO and Alex is convinced Supergirl did not do this and Haley…agrees. Lena and Alex are together and push button Supergirl to them where they promise to stay a team to get down to the bottom of this.
Remember Who You Are
Supergirl and J’onn are flying above the City doing a sweep for Lex when J’onn hears the voice of M’yrnn and drops from the skies. Supergirl catches him and back at his home he explains that the internal conflict he’s having from not being a man of peace as he promised his father is leading to a breakdown. Supergirl tells him that he needs to spend the time he needs getting himself better. At his office he tries to commune with the Martian sacred symbols when he’s interrupted by a knock on the door. Angry, he goes to find M’yrnn at the door. Shocked, he finds M’yrnn to be blunt and rude about J’onn not succeeding in his desire to become a man of peace. M’yrnn will be taking the symbols away and J’onn is freaked that if they leave everything of Martian religion and history will disappear forever. M’yrnn be like…”yeah, that’s too bad that you ^&%&’ed it up.” Wait, what?! Basically M’yrnn is getting J’onn to be true to himself as the Martian Manhunter. Once he finally admits that he can’t be his father and must be himself all is settled. They come up with a plan to take the Symbols back to the desert on Mars where they came out of. They will lie dormant until “someone who is worthy” comes to take them again. J’onn packs up the spaceship and heads to Mars.
James and Ben and a Lightbulb
Sister Kelly Olsen is interested why James is leaving the hospital in his suit and ready to get back to work rather than work through what has happened to him. She follows him later to the office with a list of PTSD counselors. He is not interested but would rather she head home rather than take advantage of him while he’s down and telling him what to do. Super Kara comes to CatCo to tell him that Eve/Lex shot him so the danger is still out there. Then he heads to the Oval Office and has a severe reaction to the mayhem that Red Daughter lays down. James heads home and asks Kelly to stay to help him going forward. She assures him that she’s not going anywhere. Meanwhile, George Lockwood is learning about the ways of Washington, DC from his dad Ben as they head to a Senator’s office where she tells Ben that she won’t be voting for the repeal. Ben is shocked and threatens her to listen to the voice of the common man. She laughs him out of her office. (OK, not really. I’m embellishing it to how it should have gone.) Eve pressures the Senator to change her mind and the repeal is done. James is in the Oval Office and tells Ben that he’s been used by Lex Luthor and Ben is dumbfounded.
Throw Momma From The Prison
And, there are two absolutely exquisite scenes with Brenda Strong as the recurrent Lillian Luthor. They are both with Katie McGrath alone and the first one is Lillian gloating over Lex and her being the same person and Lena being weak for being dependent on her friends, and that her having a heart is a point of weakness. The second one is Lena getting to gloat a little bit because she found the prison schematics in Eve’s secret lab showing that he was planning the end of Mama Luthor. Lillian gives in to Lena and gives her the information she wants. I will applaud every single time Lillian is showcased not just because Brenda is amazing in this role but in how the writers keep on pounding the drum that Lena is different from her family. Huzzah!
Closing Thoughts
There’s a lot to process in this episode so I would encourage multiple viewings. The team puts together all of the different pieces of Lex’s puppeteering and how it impacts Ben, Lena, James, Supergirl, Eve, everyone. It sets the stage for a battle royale between Supergirl and Red Daughter. For these reasons I thought this was another solid episode of setting up the ultimate conflict between Supergirl and Lex. Let’s talk about Supergirl feeling the weight of battling Superman’s arch nemesis and why she feels she can’t lose against him because that would mean she can’t handle things as well as Superman. I really don’t like this part of this episode. I really don’t appreciate sending the message that she feels this kind of pressure. Lex now has super powers and is the “greatest criminal mind of our age” per Gene Hackman. Plus the fact that he has his own Supergirl to do his battling for him. Her thinking she has to be as good or better than Superman is a negative message and I hope they show this line of thinking as a fallacy. My only other gripe is that they’re pulling Kara’s support from J’onn during this huge test of her. Hopefully they will show that her strength of character and having Alex and Lena with her will be enough. Other good points: Ben realizing he’s been tooled this whole time was well done. James realizing that he is going to need help in the short-term healing is also well done. Finally, airing the dirty laundry between Lena and Supergirl was well overdue and I’m very glad that they could both have an adult conversation – especially that Supergirl could open up the possibility that Lena might have other than sinister motives behind the science that she works on. This was overall a really good episode. Thanks to all involved!
Cougar’s Comic Corner
“Superman/Batman Vol. 01: Public Enemies”
A tale of loyalty and unlikely friendship featuring two of the recognizable and popular super-heroes on the planet, this book pairs the Man of Steel with the Dark Knight. The iconic super-heroes unite when longtime Superman enemy Lex Luthor, now POTUS, accuses Superman of a horrible act against mankind, and assembles a top-secret team of powerhouse heroes to bring Superman in – dead or alive. But after the Dark Knight Detective proves Luthor’s accusations to be baseless, the “World’s Finest” duo prepares to topple the corrupt President’s reign once and for all. From August of 2012 authored by Jeph Loeb!
Find it on Amazon today!
Next time on “Supergirl”!
Season 4, Episode 18, “Crime and Punishment”
There’s no official description yet but keep your eyes on the Facebook group feed!
Feedback
We want you to be part of the podcast! After a new episode airs, head over to our feedback site and drop us a quick line, or record a short voicemail, reacting to the events of the episode. What was interesting to you? What stood out? What did the episode do well or, perhaps, what did it not do well? We rely on your input to help round out our conversation and anticipate the opportunity to include your thoughts and theories!
[sc:ms]
Some blog posts comments…
“Oh, and James has got some serious PTSD going on” – THAT BETTER BE ALL HE HAD GOING ON; NO POWERS FOR James!
“They find out Otis was brought back through Metallo technology” – but more importantly still – where is Mercy?! If they’re going to say she died couldn’t she have at least been the failed test they fight in this for closure? 🙁
I’m all for Kara remembering she works best with a team not solo like Clark and that’s okay – having a team doesn’t make you less than; again Kara IS NOT Clark so stop forcing his ideas on her! Maybe if he worked with others he could have defeated Lex long ago. Clark could definitely learn more from his cousin than she can from him.
“Other good points: Ben realizing he’s been tooled this whole time was well done.” – I just hope they don’t use this as a redemption tease for him because he’s done too much in my opinion for him to be called a hero come season end; anti villain sure but hero no. Again they’ve just done too much with Ben for me so I feel his plot will always be “too little too late”.
On to the podcast…
I agree with Justina, K Vox always has good feedback so she deserves to be credited also. 🙂
Thankfully the CW seems dedicated to these superhero series, especially since they keep ordering more, and Mark (network head) did say the ratings for this season wouldn’t really be held against the show because they knew the move would throw some people so we’re safe and I definitely hope “Supergirl” goes for a long time (10 years would be nice) but I get them taking off for things no one wants to compete with such as the Super Bowl and they took off not to take viewers from CBS for their awards shows but it’s just annoying when they don’t plan those events out better and it leaves viewers frustrated we’re on break again after just coming back from a break. I don’t know if it’s true but it feels like this season the superhero shows have gone on break more than before. It really affects the pacing because some plots work better running in a pack than they do an episode here then one two weeks later and again it’s just super annoying no matter how you feel for plots when you come back from a break excited to see what’s coming only to go on another break the second you get back; it’s like when we when we came back from the holiday break to do one episode (I can’t remember which but it was Nia centric) then went back on break it’s like why not save that one episode for the return or have it be the episode before break. I love that the network has confidence in these series to do this but it’s just frustrating as a viewer to get into this great run of episodes and then have the breaks slammed on essentially. As Justina said it can throw some viewers off scheduling wise and leave them forgetting to record the episode or lost on details even with the “previously on” segment.
I’m actually surprised Lillian didn’t narc Kara out when she talked about Lena being friends with the sisters because that would be up her alley to do to twist the knife and try to leave Lena out in the cold as it were and maybe lure her back to Lex if he prayed on her hurt again.
Same John, the “I have to do it all alone” moment from Kara in the lab was really annoying to me because Kara isn’t alone; she gets like this when Clark has been in her head so maybe fighting his big bad is making her think like Clark even though they’re not alike because Kara works with a group where as he does a lot of solo stuff. Granted J’onn isn’t there but she doesn’t know that yet so she had him, she’s got Brainy who definitely has an interest in preserving time, there’s Alex who will always help her even if she doesn’t know it’s her sister currently – Kara definitely doesn’t have to be in this alone and isn’t in this alone so that moment was annoying. Again I really dislike when they write Kara like Clark; just because they share DNA doesn’t make them the same writers!
Justina be real, Clark never looked out for Kara really; yes he put her with the Danvers which is the best thing he ever did for her but he has not really looked out for her certainly not like the Danvers have.
Kara’s never been alone as she’s always had Alex!
Think about this drama moment coming up John – J’onn doesn’t know it was Lex who had James shot yet, he went after Manchester thinking it was him so how is that going to affect him if he learns he “killed” Manchester under incorrect situations?
Lol to Katie in a recent TVLine article – “But McGrath isn’t complaining. In fact, she finds it “gratifying” that Alex has temporarily had her memory swiped. “I always get asked, ‘Lena’s so smart. How does she not know Kara is Supergirl?’ So now I get to say, ‘Look, if her sister can’t tell the difference, I think you should let up on poor Lena.’”, it’s a nice try but Alex gets migraines almost when she has memories close to the reveal of Kara’s identity so her not rushing to remember yet gets a bit more slack than Lena who has no excuses. 🙂
OH MY GOSH Darryl YES, I totally agree S1 Kara wasn’t crazy about Kryptonite being used true but she understood the benefits to it when fighting an army of angry Kryptonians and it wasn’t until S2 when Clark came in that she started saying he was right because Clark essentially. It’s just another example of why I am not crazy about him involved in the series! I’m not going to hold my breath but I’d love to see Kara tell him off one day when he’s being arguably irrational.
There’s a reason Chyler is number two on the call sheet and a part of the heart of the show. 🙂
Yes no to Lames, yes to James and CatCo desk! 🙂
“I want to see Alex back with her memories and I want to see Kara tell Lena she’s Supergirl” – so say we all Geoff.
Maybe he needs AT&T John. 😉 LOL to Justina’s “face palm” moment!
It would be cute if you could teach your dog to bark when you sign out with her inclusion John.
LOVE the end cap to this episode with Barry’s comment.
Hello Maid of Steel podcasters; Monty with the Monty here;
To follow with my remarks about this gonzo episode:
1. I think Ben Lockwood back when someone (Otis) contacted him earlier this season, knew exactly who financed him.
2. Mercy Graves can still be written in. Maybe there was a budget or scheduling issue. These actors have to be paid.
3. The “Sons of Liberty” yellow stars story line remains anti-Semitic and is pure garbage. Nothing can dissuade me from this assessment. I see the references on screen and it still torques me off.
4. To clarify the issue with “Manchester Manhunter” if there is any confusion. I am with Green Butterfly, that David Ajala could take that part and play to it with the other actors pretending to see David Harewood when Ajala is in scene. This can free Harewood up to play director or do other things for awhile.
5. I call it like I see it (1-4). I know that there are persons unhappy with what I denote from what I see, but it is my honest opinion that propaganda and or bad storytelling, lousy technical work and poor acting cannot be excused. “Garbage is.” to paraphrase Tom King from his Mister Miracle comic.
6. I hope for better always; but I have never had much real hope with agenda driven as opposed to entertainment driven TV shows.
7. I do not like Floriana Lima 2.0 (Azie Tesfal). If a lover for Alex who could not act and is “UGH!” on camera; did not work the first time, why try again with the same fail formula? The show runners should have used Odette Annabel like I suggested in the first place. Given us 2 for 1 and really amped up the “girl power”. The casting agent for this show should be fired. I can explain WHY they did not do it. Odette wiped the floor with the show cast in Season 3. With 2 super girls on the play card, which one will the audience poll toward? Not Melissa Benoist. The better actress will always draw. Remember what I said about miscasting Melissa and Chyler? I wonder how Odette Annabelle would look as a blonde?
Monty
“The show runners should have used Odette Annabel like I suggested in the first place.”
Oh Monty, I second this; I feel letting Sam go so soon was a bust because one you had Alex/Sam as a plot and two there was the whole plot of “what do you when you have the power to save someone but don’t because you’re scared of your powers?”. Sam was like this show’s Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost – there’s a lot of dark plots with her you can do that don’t fit the lighter hero for the series. What happened if Sam agreed with Reign, would that help her reemerge maybe? Could Sam ever balance the two or was it really safer for her to never use her powers again? What did her DNA mean for Ruby because I still say there’s no way she could morph Sam’s DNA just being human.
I can admit it might seem difficult to balance two Kryptonians but it could have been made clear Sam is the just the “in case of emergencies” assistant because another thing she could have posed is “do you have to help just because you have powers?” because as Mon once said not everyone wants to be a hero like Kara so Sam could just be CFO for L Corp and Alex’s girlfriend. Then again that would go into Lena’s time at the office so again it might have been hard to balance her from their POV at the time; Sam also comes with Ruby and maybe they didn’t want a kid in the series at that point given the reaction to William on “Arrow” when he started coming in more, S5 seems to be when kids come in so Sam could always come back.
I’d certainly take her back! 🙂
Real world Sam could have easily fit in with the group but show wise maybe she would have fit in too many places and thus accidentally stepped on some toes because she can back up Kara which does take away times from J’onn which may have accelerated his jump into private detecting earlier than they wanted; being CFO again it means Lena doesn’t have to be in the office which does give her more lab time but I would fear that may tempt them into doing evil Lena because L Corp had a backup manager and no one wants Lena evil! It’s not hard to be more interesting than James when he’s not being the newsman he should so if you had Sam it would make him feel even more forced in spots maybe or lessen his screen time because people want to see her more and they’re not cutting others. Reign would have killed the Children Of Liberty probably which yay but also then we just do again S3 with “is Sam evil or not because of Reign’s actions” so again maybe she was just too big for the current upcoming plots and with both Brainy and Nia coming in it was one person (two counting Ruby) too many.
Maybe they also didn’t want to have Alex in another serious relationship after they messed up the engagement (which shouldn’t have happened in S3 because they knew Floriana was leaving as they only signed her to one season and it just didn’t fit with Maggie to say yes in that moment arguably) so there wouldn’t be Alex/Sam for awhile thus one less plot for Odette to play; because of spoilers we know there will be Kelly/Alex eventually but even they aren’t staring until near season end/start of next season (maybe this is why Azie got signed for season regular so soon because she just came in and they have so much to wrap up they can’t do the romance honestly until next season) and given the chemistry of Agent Sam I know I personally wouldn’t want to wait to wait too long to see them get started but you don’t want to join them up too fast because you don’t want to tick off Sanvers fans even more so looking back I can get maybe why Sam wasn’t in S4 but man she would still be cool to see tackling the dual personalities. They could always bring her back to do that saying her powers have returned but Sam’s more in control because of help from everyone Odette’s schedule permitting so it’s never over! 🙂
I love Melissa and Chyler as the sisters so I like the casting personally. It’s always interesting to see takes but I’m happy with who we have in the parts!
“I call it like I see it.”
I’m fine with this Monty; I may not always understand the references you make but your take is as fair as anyone else’s. 🙂 As long as we all keep being civil in our discussions we’re doing good!
Aaron writes:
“Oh, Monty, I second this; I feel letting Sam go so soon was a bust because one you had Alex/Sam as a plot and two there was the whole plot of “what do you when you have the power to save someone but don’t because you’re scared of your powers?”. Sam was like this show’s Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost – there’s a lot of dark plots with her you can do that don’t fit the lighter hero for the series. What happened if Sam agreed with Reign, would that help her reemerge maybe? Could Sam ever balance the two or was it really safer for her to never use her powers again? What did her DNA mean for Ruby because I still say there’s no way she could morph Sam’s DNA just being human.
I can admit it might seem difficult to balance two Kryptonians but it could have been made clear Sam is the just the “in case of emergencies” assistant because another thing she could have posed is “do you have to help just because you have powers?” because as Mon once said not everyone wants to be a hero like Kara so Sam could just be CFO for L Corp and Alex’s girlfriend. Then again that would go into Lena’s time at the office so again it might have been hard to balance her from their POV at the time; Sam also comes with Ruby and maybe they didn’t want a kid in the series at that point given the reaction to William on “Arrow” when he started coming in more, S5 seems to be when kids come in so Sam could always come back
Aaron wrote about Odette An nable:
“I’d certainly take her back!”
Unfortunately Odette Annable ( I keep misspelling her name) is slated for a Fox Pilot comedy. If it succeeds we will not see her ever again on Supergirl.
Aaron some more:
“Real world Sam could have easily fit in with the group but show wise maybe she would have fit in too many places and thus accidentally stepped on some toes because she can back up Kara which does take away times from J’onn which may have accelerated his jump into private detecting earlier than they wanted; being CFO again it means Lena doesn’t have to be in the office which does give her more lab time but I would fear that may tempt them into doing evil Lena because L Corp had a backup manager and no one wants Lena evil! It’s not hard to be more interesting than James when he’s not being the newsman he should so if you had Sam it would make him feel even more forced in spots maybe or lessen his screen time because people want to see her more and they’re not cutting others. Reign would have killed the Children Of Liberty probably which yay but also then we just do again S3 with “is Sam evil or not because of Reign’s actions” so again maybe she was just too big for the current upcoming plots and with both Brainy and Nia coming in it was one person (two counting Ruby) too many.”
I agree with this assessment. It is very akin to what I think.
Aaron on Alex:
“Maybe they also didn’t want to have Alex in another serious relationship after they messed up the engagement (which shouldn’t have happened in S3 because they knew Floriana was leaving as they only signed her to one season and it just didn’t fit with Maggie to say yes in that moment arguably) so there wouldn’t be Alex/Sam for awhile thus one less plot for Odette to play; because of spoilers we know there will be Kelly/Alex eventually but even they aren’t staring until near season end/start of next season (maybe this is why Azie got signed for season regular so soon because she just came in and they have so much to wrap up they can’t do the romance honestly until next season) and given the chemistry of Agent Sam I know I personally wouldn’t want to wait to wait too long to see them get started but you don’t want to join them up too fast because you don’t want to tick off Sanvers fans even more so looking back I can get maybe why Sam wasn’t in S4 but man she would still be cool to see tackling the dual personalities. They could always bring her back to do that saying her powers have returned but Sam’s more in control because of help from everyone Odette’s schedule permitting so it’s never over! ”
Aaron, when I hear your voice in my head, you are just so enthusiastic and positive. That is such a great character thing about you. It makes the sour dour German in me smile. We will have to disagree a little about Azie Tasfai. I suspect that the writers are not rushing the Azie/Chyler launching for a rather good reason. Floriama Lima skunked up the monitors and yet they, the showrunners, pushed that leaky Floriana/Chyler ship into the water and watched it sink without proper audience polling beforehand. I might dare to suggest that they are holding off the Azie/Chyler ship until they have a read on how Azie does in her next 7 episodes. My opinion is known. I have seen nothing about “Kelly Olsen” that makes me warm up to her. She is an unneeded casting cost to the show, that currfently serves no purpose, much like Jesse Rath, who plays “Braindead”, is.
Aaron about the Danvers sisters:
“I love Melissa and Chyler as the sisters so I like the casting personally. It’s always interesting to see takes but I’m happy with who we have in the parts!”
I like the pairing, because there is great chemistry, but I wish the better actress was cast as Supergirl. In this whole series, I have only seen Melissa Benoist play a proper Supergirl twice. Once was in “Redfaced” when she lets go and then again, when in the “House of L” she plays up her Red Daughter again. Supergirl works best as the headstrong El, who has to be restrained or coached by someone. If you want the Marvel parallel, take a look at “Carol Danvers” (Brie Larson/Captain Marvel) in her movie and see how she plays Supergirl. With aggression and passion in those parts of that movie when she is most effective, SHE is Captain Marvel. Nerf the Trolls who are afraid of strong women. I LIKE my superwomen to be strong because it forces the men to be strong to keep up. That was the FAIL in “Captain Marvel” as it was plot constructed. Sure her lover, Yon Rogg, was a prick, and sure their lovemaking always came down to Yon punching Carol in the face, which was/is/always will be abuse; but there were inserts where strong men pushed Carol hard. What has that to do with Supergirl? Show me one season or even one episode when a good female/male compeer dynamic has existed in this series? Who is there to pace Kara zor-el? In the first season it was to be Jimmy Olsen, but the writers screwed that up right in the pilot, when a very good actor, Mehcad Brooks was reduced to love object, as in objectified fixation for the female half of the viewing audience instead of as a fully rounded 3D character he should have been. But I digress from the Danvers sisters, when I should address the Alex issue.
If you are going to fix a host of problems, such as the no suitable equal to Supergirl, so Melissa can bounce her self off as an actress (The reaction method that works best for her when she has something she can reflect instead of make up on her own, such as Carl Lumely or David Harewood or Chyler Leigh do routinely when they have to make something up to carry the garbage they are expected to act …) off a peer in scene, then let’s get Chyler Harunilled up and have her join the flying and frying club. If Jimmy and J’onn aren’t (for various “reasons” which I understand but which also frustrate me, because why cannot a STRONG WOMAN have strong men as teachers and peers?) suitable because of the show ruiners’ (not a misspelling) lack of vision, then bring in Power Girl 4.0. Let’s see Nightwing and Flamebird dagnabit. .
Aaron’s last comment about “passion”.
Me:
“I call it like I see it.”
Aaron:
“I’m fine with this Monty; I may not always understand the references you make but your take is as fair as anyone else’s. As long as we all keep being civil in our discussions we’re doing good!
I try to stay inside the lines when I color Red, but sometimes the choler (not a misspelling) won’t stay inside the lines.
IOW… You are not the only one with passion, Aaron. I have been a Supergirl fan for two decades. I know esoterica that might amaze you, such as who Rachel Burkowitz is. Blackstarr is perhaps Supergirl’s least used and most powerful enemy in the comics. You might take a look at her in the original “Adventures of Supergirl” or later in “Suicide Squad”. If one thinks the jobbers, Superman has for a rogues galaxy are anything, try someone who can manipulate reality on a plane that not even Myxy understands. THERE is a villain worthy of Season 5 Supergirl if they have the guts to use her. Rachel is the Anti-monitor or even Superboy Prime ramped up to the maximum. Insane too, the poor kid is. So a tragi-villain.
Monty
I’m glad you enjoy the conversations also Monty! Personally I see you as a big brain because you always make these really smart comparisons and again while I don’t always get the references I do appreciate the time you take in making them! 🙂
I understand not being sold on Kelly yet as we’ve seen a grand total of maybe 20 minutes of Azie Tasfai so it’s hard to really know how she’ll be long run. These first few times may be a case of getting into the groove with everyone and then she’s good or it maybe be she’s great with some but only ok with others because of chemistry. I hope they do well with Kelly and she isn’t hollow in the sense they say she’s a doctor but we never really see her skills in the position; I want to see her talk to James the way she would a patient but because they’re family you do need the conflict of getting emotional on some topics and I also want to see her beyond James and Alex because you want to see characters feel real and staying locked down to just two isn’t real – she doesn’t have to be besties with Lena or Kara or J’onn but as much as they’re around her main two she should at least speak to them.
I liked Floriana’s Maggie because she felt like she grounded some characters, for example she really helped Alex accept herself more in a way that wasn’t forceful or judgmental just supportive and she suggested to Kara that maybe how she did things wasn’t the best (“…and now its got a nice Supergirl sized hole in it!”); Maggie felt realistic in her motives and approaches (except for the quick proposal acceptance because I still feel Maggie would be flattered by that but say they were moving to fast realistically) and I liked that. She helped Alex learn that drinking doesn’t fix your problems and Alex has grown as a result of that in terms of how to deal with some situations and that’s a big deal. Was there something specific about the portrayal beyond acting choices you didn’t like Monty or was it just an overall thing where the character didn’t really excite you?
I will admit when I first saw Maggie, because the shadow of Kate Kane looms large, I did consider what if she’s not there to date Alex but just help Alex and really they’re going to do Alex/Lena but it quickly became apparent they were doing Sanvers which was good but always did have the shadow of Kate/Maggie over it for me and of course you can’t just sort of agree on kids and it’s just as fair to Maggie not to want them as it is for Alex to want them so as good as they are they aren’t OTP because of a pretty big divide.
“Who is there to pace Kara?” – not a dude but Cat always kept Kara progressing for her best self. The only guy jumping to my mind is J’onn.
I have to say no to superpowering Alex long term because her big thing is she’s the human kicking butt in this group and I like that so temporarily maybe but long term no. This is where Sam could come in to again be the flip potentially to some debates.
NO! No Nightwing! Sorry Monty but I have problems with Dick.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again – I’d love to see Caitlin Parrish showrun for at least a season because she has yet to let me down on episodes she’s been leading! She’s been shifted to write for Greg’s new show “Red Line” though so I don’t see that happening any time soon.
“Blackstarr is perhaps Supergirl’s least used and most powerful enemy in the comics.” – a Supergirl villain you say Monty, yes to that on the show as not every nod to the comics has to come from Clark writers! I don’t know if they’ll use her though unless they go by her real name because “Arrow” has set up a Blackstar with Mia so just to avoid confusion they may not use her alter ego name. I’m for more Supergirl comic plots on the series instead of again every Easter egg/nod pretty much coming from Superman because again Kara is not her cousin and shouldn’t be basically treated as a female him.
Anti Monitor will be a crossover villain if they do her given Monitor was set up in the last one.
Aaron writes:
“I’m glad you enjoy the conversations also Monty! Personally I see you as a big brain because you always make these really smart comparisons and again while I don’t always get the references I do appreciate the time you take in making them! ”
Thank you. I am not a big brain, I am a “noird”.
Aaron on Azie and her 22 and ½ minutes:
“I understand not being sold on Kelly yet as we’ve seen a grand total of maybe 20 minutes of Azie Tasfai so it’s hard to really know how she’ll be long run. These first few times may be a case of getting into the groove with everyone and then she’s good or it maybe be she’s great with some but only ok with others because of chemistry. I hope they do well with Kelly and she isn’t hollow in the sense they say she’s a doctor but we never really see her skills in the position; I want to see her talk to James the way she would a patient but because they’re family you do need the conflict of getting emotional on some topics and I also want to see her beyond James and Alex because you want to see characters feel real and staying locked down to just two isn’t real – she doesn’t have to be besties with Lena or Kara or J’onn but as much as they’re around her main two she should at least speak to them.”
I was fed up with Azie about 10 minutes in after her first two; “I am the boss of this” sessions in her two hospital scenes. There are many ways to play the admittedly poorly written setups she is given; but “Enter as piece of lumber through doorway” is not one of them. Her two one on ones with Mehcad came across to me in similar disfavor as her eyes darted wildly about in a distracting manner; as if she did not know her camera orient line of sight or where her cue cards were. I am simply not impressed with her at all.
Aaron likes Floriana…
“I liked Floriana’s Maggie because she felt like she grounded some characters, for example she really helped Alex accept herself more in a way that wasn’t forceful or judgmental just supportive and she suggested to Kara that maybe how she did things wasn’t the best (“…and now its got a nice Supergirl sized hole in it!”); Maggie felt realistic in her motives and approaches (except for the quick proposal acceptance because I still feel Maggie would be flattered by that but say they were moving to fast realistically) and I liked that. She helped Alex learn that drinking doesn’t fix your problems and Alex has grown as a result of that in terms of how to deal with some situations and that’s a big deal. Was there something specific about the portrayal beyond acting choices you didn’t like Monty or was it just an overall thing where the character didn’t really excite you?
I will admit when I first saw Maggie, because the shadow of Kate Kane looms large, I did consider what if she’s not there to date Alex but just help Alex and really they’re going to do Alex/Lena but it quickly became apparent they were doing Sanvers which was good but always did have the shadow of Kate/Maggie over it for me and of course you can’t just sort of agree on kids and it’s just as fair to Maggie not to want them as it is for Alex to want them so as good as they are they aren’t OTP because of a pretty big divide”
Part of the problem with Floriana, is that she just does not “cop” well on camera for me. Police officers in dramas should have presence. She is too small in the “presence” department to project enough aura through the monitors. It is a pure subjective thing, but I look for it. Melissa would make a decent TV cop. Chyler would make a great TV cop.
By the way; have you seen Floriana Lima’s atrocious performance as Krista Dumont on “The Punisher”? Even as a psychologist/villain (and a minor character one) she lacks presence and scene occupancy. She may know the acting techniques, but she has almost zero camera charisma again in that show. She seems 2-d always; a caricature. In the end on Supergirl, the writers had to use what they had, and they exited her off show as a typecast mere conniver manipulator b-word. That was what Floriana could play and you will notice that is how she was “typecast” on “The Punisher” in her bit part?
Aaron on Kara’s compeer:
.
“Who is there to pace Kara?” – not a dude but Cat always kept Kara progressing for her best self. The only guy jumping to my mind is J’onn.”
Good point, but mentor Cat/Calista Flockhart was simply too good an actress and too expensive for Vancouver CW/Supergirl.
J’onn was ruined in the Manchester storyline. My opinion. YMMV. Nerfing David Harewood was a huge mistake.
Aaron on Power Girl 4.0., :
“I have to say no to superpowering Alex long term because her big thing is she’s the human kicking butt in this group and I like that so temporarily maybe but long term no. This is where Sam could come in to again be the flip potentially to some debates.”
I have no problem with Reign, good guy and ex-Supergirl villain. The part would require a recast, like the role of Alura gets, but please no Erica Durance redo for Reign. Get a GOOD replacement! Maybe Megan Boone?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1443644/.
Comic book lesson comng up for Aaron:
“NO! No Nightwing! Sorry Monty but I have problems with Dick.”
Aside from Batgirl/Stephanie Brown; Batwoman/Kate Kane; Gotham Girl/Claire Clover and the Red Hood/Jason Todd, I have no use for Batman or the other kids he abuses and molests; who follow his model blindly as written. You will notice that every Bat that I like wants to put Bruce into the ground or at least beat him to a pulp for being an abuser asshat? Nutwing, I particularly loathe because Grayson is such a me-too (I mean that in the seriously psychologically disturbed schizo-paranoid Bruce Wayne abuser role model in the DC comics history and not in any way shape or form in the current women’s righteous retrofit of male-dominated and sexual harasser filled business and entrtainment communities, which need that retro-fit. I.e. the reason WE HAVE BATMAN in the first place in comic books.)
The Nightwing I want is the KRYPTONIAN. She is the better half of the Kryptonian duo of Nightwing and Flamebird. Read their story here:
https://supermanrebirth.fandom.com/wiki/Nightwing_and_Flamebird.
In the Supergirl story segment of World of New Krypton, Christopher Kent (Superboy/3A), was the in story Nightwing to Thora ak Var’s Flamebird.
In another Supergirl story, Power Girl was Nightwing during a Kandor hijinks arc run which featured Ultraman and Saturn Queen setting up a racist theocracy in Kandor. One can see why I want Alex Harunilled, now? If we get WONK, we need a Nightwing for it and I nominate Alex. Poor kid.
Aaron on Caitlin Parrish:
“I’ve said it before and I will say it again – I’d love to see Caitlin Parrish showrun for at least a season because she has yet to let me down on episodes she’s been leading! She’s been shifted to write for Greg’s new show “Red Line” though so I don’t see that happening any time soon.”
The only decent thing I’ve seen from Ms. Parrish is “Under the Dome” a CBS experiment that flopped after a two season run. On Supergirl, Ms. Parrish is one voice among too many, and as long as Derek Simon and his crappy coterie pollute the works, it will be a drowned out voice. That may be a bit of choler spilling across the lines, and if so, I apologize, but I really dislike Derek and his crew of cling-ons. I just want to Kirk the lot of them.
Aaron on Rachel Burkowitz:
“Blackstarr is perhaps Supergirl’s least used and most powerful enemy in the comics.” – a Supergirl villain you say Monty, yes to that on the show as not every nod to the comics has to come from Clark writers! I don’t know if they’ll use her though unless they go by her real name because “Arrow” has set up a Blackstar with Mia so just to avoid confusion they may not use her alter ego name. I’m for more Supergirl comic plots on the series instead of again every Easter egg/nod pretty much coming from Superman because again Kara is not her cousin and shouldn’t be basically treated as a female him.”
Then pull for the Supergirl part of WONK. It stands as the definitive Supergirl, Kara zor El, story. Clark’s part was a ho-hum; he-fights-Zod, cliché plot, but what KARA goes through under the hands of Gates and Igles is strictly Iphigenia (and I can write that because they lifted whole arcs of Greek House Atreides tragedy to make Kara fit the part, even to the point of thinly disguising Alura as a Clytamnestra in her own arc.)
Comic book lesson for Aaron and others again.
“Anti Monitor will be a crossover villain if they do her given Monitor was set up in the last one.”
If they do the Anti-monitor, they better bring in the weapon shops of Qward (Ripped off from Cordwainer Smith and A.E. an Vogt respectivley, and Doctor Light (Hoshi, the imperious but good hearted Japanese woman astronomotrix, not that rapist, Arthur.)
Poor crazed Rachel Burkowitz would be another perfect addition. She can substitute for Reactron and really bring the thunder. Someone who can simply recite an equation and POOF, no more Milky Way Galaxy? talk about your Silver Age NEMESIS!
Monty
Chyler actually has played a cop and a FBI agent/terrorist (depending on how you see her character from “Brake”) before Monty; the cop show didn’t last long which I can’t be upset about as it means she’s on “Supergirl” and she is killing it here and I haven’t seen clips of the movie online so I can’t share any.
I don’t have Netflix so I haven’t seen Floriana in “The Punisher”.
I like Erica on other things but I will agree I miss Laura as the twins! I’ve never seen Megan Boone in anything so I can’t speak to her.
Awe Spoiler; I miss her and Huntress working together.
Thanks for the comic notes as I hear Nightwing and zone out because I go instantly to Dick and again I want to punch that dude more times than not when he’s in that ego! Rachel Burkowitz sounds interesting and I would look forward to her appearance in the crossover; it’s always a nice palate cleanser to have a villain that you can have some sympathy for instead of always having evil because evil.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rachel_Berkowitz_%28Earth-One%29
To quote:
Born to Jewish parents in Poland, Rachel was taken from her mother when they arrived at a concentration camp (in her mind, her mother had let them take her and abandoned her). She managed to amuse the camp commandant so much that she was allowed to live and was taken into his home. Being raised in a Nazi household, combined with her mother’s failure to save her, convinced Rachel that the Nazis were right. The camp commandant had been prepared for the fall of Nazi Germany and had arranged false papers for her. These identified Rachel as American and she set off to the United States, where she studied and received her first PH.D. at 18.
Rachel unraveled a mystery that Einstein could only begin to dream of. The very forces of the universe took her, molding her into the being called Blackstarr.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl:_Blackstarr
Introduction.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Suicide_Squad_Vol_2_6
Where is she now? Escaped the Suicide Squad after the Squad fails to wipe a bunch of magicians and their magical island. A mission which President Lex Luthor expects them to screw up. Berkowitz takes over the cabal of magicians and disappears their island ready to be introduced in new adventures to carry out her “racial purity campaigns”.
The screwed up character antecedes and mimics Magneto, does one notice?
Definitely sounds like DC Magneto!
This could be a follow up to this season with Rachel becoming disillusioned with being equal to humans; she could like Erik feel working with humans isn’t helping her because they turn on them without a chance to explain and adapt the “if they want to fear us let them fear us” ideal. We would have to see Rachel trying though before her turn otherwise she’d just be a repeat of Ben who’s on his ego trip because he and his dad didn’t even try really and no one wants a repeat Ben! Ha. Even then she might not be the most sympathetic villain ever on the show but she’d be more sympathetic than him!
Aaron wrote:
“Definitely sounds like DC Magneto!”
Rachel B. appeared at a time when the last comic book creators were still of the WW II generation and Nazis were the villain template. Paul Kupperberg co-created
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kupperberg )
along with the legendary Carmine Infantino.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmine_Infantino )
Both names are famous in DC Comics history; especially Carmine who is to DC, what Steven Ditko or even Bob Kane is, one of their greatest. So Rachel’s pedigree is top tier Silver Age.
Aaron writes:
“This could be a follow up to this season with Rachel becoming disillusioned with being equal to humans; she could, like Erik, feel working with humans isn’t helping her because they turn on them without a chance to explain and adapt the “if they want to fear us let them fear us” ideal. We would have to see Rachel trying though before her turn otherwise she’d just be a repeat of Ben who’s on his ego trip because he and his dad didn’t even try really and no one wants a repeat Ben! Ha. Even then she might not be the most sympathetic villain ever on the show but she’d be more sympathetic than him.”
I will try to explain the difference between Rachel and Ben…
Ben begins his life, raised as a “deplorable”.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-deplorable-in-politics
This actually gets into dangerous territory with the Supergirl viewership, and is a reason that the Ben Lockwood character is such a “negative” experience because like it or not, about a solid 1/3 to 1/2 of the Supergirl viewership fits the “code definition” of some of the negative connotation of “homeland, religion, and family values” that was a problem in the last American election. To quote the Quora cite I provide:
“According to Hillary Clinton (who is the originator of this particular meme) a deplorable is one of a whole melange of people holding one or more highly unpleasant viewpoints. According to her detractors, a deplorable is one of a whole melange of people holding much more moderate viewpoints she is misrepresenting because they do not coincide with hers.”
The show writers, who created “Ben Lockwood” forgot that a viewership should never be directly attacked for any reason. Educated yes, certainly, as certain shows like “Law and Order” try to do with cause-effect stories about gun-control and corporate crime, but NEVER create a straw-man character, so in one’s face, to preach a direct political hate message at the audience such that THE VIEWER is directly lumped in with “the deplorable” who is presented. How would one who turns to a show for entertainment, want or like to see a character/villain who wears a stamp on him that reads; “Hey viewer, we present this evil guy, based on your “American values” which are evil, because we say so and he represents you, you villains!” and “we the show writers and runners who created him, hate him and you with a passion.”
NOT TOO SMART. My opinion about the villain, Ben Lockwood and how he is an impactor beyond intent, YMMV. Add to the usual Supergirl show runner problems of mechanical showrunning incompetence and writer illiteracy and you see the problems starkly?
——————————————————–
Rachel Berkowitz is a different kind of villain. For one thing, she is a child who through nurture, never experiences good. As a child, she never comes to an adult understanding as to the difference between chance, evolution (cultural that is) and the absolute nature of evil. IOW, Aaron, and to any others who read this comment, one has to go back to previous episodes, where I comment on Ben Lockwood, as I describe how his values, as seen, become twisted and snarled by his inability to adapt to change. But he has empathy. It comes down to that empathy. Ben has it, but it is a biased and narrow focused on “humans” of a particular limited definition. He has learned that much from his upbringing. He is sane to that considerable extent. There is hope for his redemption as he comes to a better realization that any people are still people, no matter their origins, and are entitled to his same standard of empathy that he has for “humans”.^1
^1 Is it not funny, that the inventors of the Ben Lockwood “villain deplorable” have forgotten to APPLY that VERY necessary empathy to their audience?
Rachel, in her specific case, has never learned empathy for anything outside the Julius Streicher regime of ideology: “racial purity” based on a narrow set of rigidly defined limitations.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher
And even at this level of insanity, as I read her character, she has issues that put her outside that regime of “evil morality”. If one is a “mongrel human”, for example; one who is not genetically pure, whatever that cockamamie definition that Keith Geffen invented for her in his “Suicide Run” reintroduction of her, was: she would kill you out of hand as a matter of course. You were “vermin”; like a rat. She did not see you as anything but a “roach” to coin in on the Lockwood label for aliens.
She is by definition, still a child, and an insane child at that twisted level of understanding. She does not literally comprehend morality at all. So she cannot be even compared to Erik Magnus, who has his own twisted sense of Darwinian descent morality, but still draws the line at murdering innocent kids. At best, she is an “enfant terrible”, a force of nature that must be contained.
She is a RIPE VILLAIN for this Supergirl show and for these cockamamie writers, who could have used her to push their party line without labeling their audience as “Children of Liberty”.
Off my soapbox. I tend not to like to analyze ideological writing and the operational art errors to which it leads, but I do get annoyed at the same stupidity (fascism) embraced endlessly by the “betters” trying to lecture the audience, instead of simply show cause-effect through good story-telling, which for Season 4 Supergirl has NOT been the case. And in this opinion, your mileage cannot vary, for it has been a staple of good writing, since Homer at least, that one shows the cause, then the effect, and lets the story explain the tragedy through action instead of exposition.
How I handle Rachel:
Anyway, if one takes Rachel Berkowitz, and tries to insert her into THIS SHOW, she has to become a “force of nature”; a STALIN of such irredeemitude, that she must be contained, since she cannot be destroyed by her very physical nature. She is a GALACTUS, not a Magneto in that respect. The only way to stop her, and it would have to be written this way, is to bring every resource to bear, human and alien, which means any resource, good or evil, since survival is at stake and the only achievable outcome if she can be contained. She is that magnitude of threat to everyone and everything and should be so presented. You build plots around that kind of fundamental presence and not through Rachel as an actor. She is a “motiveless killer” kind of threat. To para-quote Tom King, comic book writer and current Batman mangler, again> “Rachel is.” which starkly means; “She’s here, idiots, now what do we do?”