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“Stand and Deliver” brings the hatred of the Children of Liberty towards aliens and the hatred of the Children of Liberty from The Elite to an explosion point. Oh, and Jimmy remembers how to use a camera. Neat! And, oh, oh, the previously on Supergirl? All of the greatest hits of Ben Lockwood that he has spat all Season long. Yeah, I was so ready for this episode after that. Thanks, recap folks!
No Amnesty Found Here
Ben Lockwood, newly installed Director of Alien Affairs, is ready to announce his first big policy initiative – to repeal and destroy the Alien Amnesty Act signed by President Marsden. The Elite have other plans. However, there are rumblings among The Elitist Members as to what their mission actually is. (Hmmmmm, I think a halfway observant podcaster brought that up last week. Heh.) Anywho, as The Elitists break up to put their plan in action, Menagerie gets greedy and gets herself alone where overzealous Dreamer (“Tell me or eat this!”), Supergirl, and Martian Manhunter (not necessarily J’onn J’onzz) take her down. Manchester Black, Hat, and the Morai attempt to assassinate Ben but miss (dang it) and are scared off by Supergirl and MM. Unthwarted by the attempt on his life Ben declares that he’s moving ahead on the AAA repeal and that a rally will be held the next day for all of the alien haters to express their desire to shout out their speciesism. Naturally, the aliens and alien-supportives are also planning to rally at the same time, and also to march to the same place as where the idiots are. What could go wrong? Anywho, for no apparent reason, the remaining Elitists know where to find the Fortress of Solitude so they go and Hat pulls gauntlets out of his…hat…to pick up the heaviest thing not from our planet, dwarf star alloy, and key their way into the Fortress. (!) Once inside they pick up a few toys and discover the baby Sun-eater that belongs to Kal-El (ummmm, why?!) that is kept in the back of the Fortress. Dreamer dreams and finds them in the Fortress so MM goes to confront them and Manchester Black runs into the room with the Sun-eater and that seems to be that. Col Haley tasks Agent Dox (Brainy) with having DEO troops on the ground-just in case the rally turns into a powder keg (again, pfffft, why?)-and he asks the Superfriends to join him there. Kara is not convinced that Supergirl needs to take part but instead act as security. Brainy reminds her that she is a citizen of Earth first. Also, they capture the Morai at the Fortress and send her and Menagerie to the DEO, courtesy of Supergirl. (The mouth on that Morai…good heavens) The rally happens, Ben frenzies the hate up to a level 11 and the alien supporting march INTO THE SAME ROOM!! (Sorry, no need for shouting.) Sure enough a powder keg doth explode with no help from Manchester Black and Hat who are both alive and well and Black has a fun toy from the Fortress that creates many holographic versions of himself. MM is hell bent on having it out with Black and when he thinks Black is alone he goes off beating the tar out of what turns out to be a Children of Liberty yahoo that Black has dressed up and silenced. Black is watching and noting that Martian Manhunter’s truer nature is coming out. Hat is taken down by Brainy and is also sent to the DEO. It’s a party! Given the aftermath of the rally Ben Lockwood decides to kick his repeal idea to more civilized minds to debate before he moves forward.
Alex Danvers, Superhero
Alex is tasked by Col Haley as the personal head of security for Director Lockwood (insert gagging here). She objects but Haley basically tells her to soldier up and do the job. After Alex spends some time with the Director she’s ready to kill him. She and Kara sit down to break Chinese food and Kara reminds her sister that Alex is a superhero simply because she can keep all of the people around Lockwood’s rally safe while stuffing her own feelings about Lockwood. Alex does get a couple of chances to express her disdain to the Director which are sweet; but, in the end, she does her job well and simultaneously keeps Lockwood safe and dispels the rally powder keg. On Kara’s couch later, again, Kara expresses her respect for her sister to stick to her morality and do her job so well. Ah, Kara’s couch…so good.
Tomorrow May Be Too Late
James calls Eve Tessmacher to his office to ask her about the Black Budget for LCorp. Eve is sure Lena will allow her to share it but will need to check with her first. She tries but Lena can’t think about anything but getting the Super Serum done as quickly as possible. Col Haley has reminded Lena that time is critical and that she was hired to do a job. Lena is not intimidated but also feels the time crunch. James is doing some real CatCo leadership reinforcing to the reporter that McKenzie taunted earlier in the Season since he’s going to cover the rally that so long as they remember their mission that he will be fine. He also asks if he can tag along as a photographer for the event – how novel! We get a really, really good montage of the rally through the “lens” of James as he concentrates on different images that tell the story of what’s happening, all scored to a rendition of “Mad World.” His pictures reach the wider public and start speaking to the benefits of living together and seeking peace. He wants to get an interview with Supergirl’s new sidekick (Dreamer), and as he’s leaving for the night he gets SHOT IN THE BACK and lays bleeding out as we fade to episode end.
Closing Thoughts
The point of this episode is tolerance and the high price to be paid when you live in ignorance. It’s one-sided and it’s shallow and frankly, I’m tired of it. That being said, the performances in this episode rose above the proselytizing and gave our characters real spotlights to do what they do best. Alex especially brought us the real life lesson that sometimes no matter how you feel about it you just do your job. Also, the whole Fortress of Solitude bit was nonsensical and why oh why do you force the confrontation in the rally by putting these two factions in the same room is not only thoughtless but, as we saw, dangerous. Finally, the exploration of J’onn changing into a one-note anger Martian Manhunter is very interesting to watch. I’m looking forward to where this goes. Kudos to Jesse Rath, Chyler Leigh, and David Harewood for dynamic acting throughout the episode. Bring on Lex and let’s step off of this $%^%^&ing Children of Liberty $#@$%@#%#$. Mmmmmmmk? Thanks so much.
Next time on Supergirl!
Season 4, Episode 15, “O Brother, Where Art Thou?”
Secretly furloughed from prison due to failing health, Lex Luthor visits his sister, Lena, to seek her help finding a cure. Savvy as ever, Lena is suspicious of Lex’s motives but when she’s faced with a life and death situation, she must decide how she truly feels about her brother. Meanwhile, Supergirl and J’onn face off against Manchester Black. James’ sister Kelly comes to town. Written by Derek Simon and Nicki Holcomb, Directed by Tawnia McKeirnan
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As promised, here is Montefescu’s detailed review of “Captain Marvel.” Thanks, Monty for taking the time and, as always, the attention to detail.
SPOILERS AHEAD:
Hello, Maid of Steel Podcasters. Monty here.
As this podcast covers Supergirl, the TV show, I thought I would let you have a look how I would cover a Supergirl movie. In this case, we actually have one. It is called “Captain Marvel” and it is from Disney, but it is a Supergirl movie.
Settle yourselves in: this will be a long review:
Prologue: first impressions and cognitions.
It is a bomb. Or it is a great movie. There is no in between. Let me explain. If you can get past the Skrulls as Syrian refugees, and the Kree as the Patriarchy and as genocidal maniacs; if you can get past Brie Larson’s wooden soldier acting, and her complete lack of a driving motive or overall major commitment to the central character, as Brie plays her to be a shell-shocked stoic, then it is still a turkey film to most people with whom I discussed it. They HATED it.
I see something a little different. I see a very emotionally damaged and traumatized human being in Carol Danvers intended in the film. Her hero’s jury is left incomplete at the end of this movie, because she is still essentially a Stockholm Syndrome survivor of a terrorist event; something like a bride of ISIS, who is kidnapped against her will and co-opted by Yon Rogg. If Brie Larson interpreted the role that way, as if she was emerging from mental brainwashing and severe physical torture, yes that is the exact way a survivor human being reacts, right down to the last confrontation she has with her master torturer and jailer, Yon Rogg.
The Mary Sue:
In the comics, Carol is rescued by her paramour, Dr. Walter Lawson from a Yon Rogg attack. A Kree psychomenetron during this rescue explodes and fuses Mar Vell’s Kree genetics with Carol’s giving her limited versions of Mar Vell’s powers; but not this time and not in this film. Dr. Wendy Lawson, the gender inverted Mar Vell; a Kree anti-war/ani-genocide pacifist out to develop “the ultimate escape for the persecuted Skrulls”; is a whack-job Kree scientist who has picked a frontier world at the edge of Kree space and its bozo inhabitants as a hidey hole and tech base to work on her illegal light-speed engine in secret. Carol is the Human air farce pilot (not a misspelling) who is assigned to fly the gonzo contraption Lawson built to test the fancy warp drive. The Kree show up to steal the device. OOPSie. In a heroic act of defiance Carol shoots into the drive to blow it and herself up, just as Yon Rogg shows up. Another OOPSie again. The star-drive is actually a final focus and aiming inflater for the “tesseract” Wendy “borrows” from the Humans to generate and inflate wormholes (space warps).The tesseract is the art6ifact that holds the “space infinity stone” (time travel and teleportation) that Howard Stark found way back at the end of WW II when he went looking for frozen Captain Steve and just missed digging him up. OOPsie number 3. After the explosion, guess what Carol is now? She is the wormhole inflater. I guess that also means that she can teleport and travel through time along with manipulating light and gravity. This result is not “mere” Supergirl power levels. It is not even Darkseid power levels. It is not even Thor or Hulk power levels. She is clearly a pure Human demi-god now (I.E. She has become a Babylon 5 human type Vorlon lightbulb.). That horrendous mistake is not properly addressed in this film because the story being told here is Carol’s loss of memory, her tortured soul and her rediscovery of self (Which is the Carol Danvers hero journey everyone who criticizes the movie is missing.). She is quite incomplete in her human journey of self discovery and suddenly she is a god?
Deceived and still deceived:
Skrulls cannot be taken at face value… ever. There is plenty of in film evidence that these Skrulls play a deep game. They could be the local refugees, they claim to be, looking to gather together to find a new home. Yeah, they could be; but these are skrulls and I’ve a sneaking suspicion that they are not the morally upright lizards they pretend to be. After all they waterboarded Carol, or has the audience forgotten how the Skrull, Talos, tried to get the location of Wendy’s lab from our Kree noble warrior, Virs? (Captain Carol.) Never TRUST a communist or an infiltraitor. (Not a misspelling; but definitely a Skrull fifth columnist metaphor lifted from the MARVEL canon.)
Here Kitty, Kitty…
Goose the cat/flerkin is obviously another manifestation of wormhole inflation. If you see an animal that can open, what is called in physics variously, a genie bottle a point vacuole or pocket universe and it can swallow anything including a fifth dimensional cube, then you RUN away from it as fast as you can. This is tribble with a capital T. Goose also decided to scratch his pet, Nick Fury, and mark the man as his personal property, the way cats do. That would be OOPSie #4. One eyed Nick may have been marked in other ways when he was scratched: other ways to be explained in future Marvel movies. As for Goose? He’s the other “god” in the film. Funny that the movie critics missed that OBVIOUS point shown to them as well.
Politics and the Agenda.
Sure was an agenda in this movie. Captain Carol does not need a man to be super-powered. Oh? Yon Rogg does not torture her and the Kree supreme intelligence (The third “god” in the movie.), does not brainwash Carol to thwart her humanity? Did one also notice that the EARTH PATRIARCHY has trained her to be a fighter pilot and not just any fighter pilot but an ELITE test pilot example of the type? Sure, there is the little episode with the biker, but that happens everywhere at least hourly in America. Our women are shown here as TOUGH. She Just steals his bike and leaves the goof on foot. No powers, no fight, just expediency and a little get-even. Must be a real oppressive Earth Patriarchy to turn Carol into that kind of a fighter pilot and human woman. I can see how the air farce instructor making training taunts and yes, her dad during the go cart race, come across to some as douches, but I can interpret it for you in another way. Each man is “I’m putting this roadblock here in front of you to TOUGHEN you up; so that you will overcome it and not wimp out in the face of male aggression”. It can be an act of respect and frankly of love these men show to get her to be what they see in her. IOW do not overthink the feminazi here. This is a MARVEL and Disney product. What they showed us was their 1990s Carol AS SHE APPEARED IN THE 1980 COMICS. She embodies a quaint 1970 liberal feminism and the patterned somewhat ironic male behavior around it from the Earthmen who dealt with it, including “Nick” Fury. Harmless. It is the Kree and the Skrulls who are the real BASTARDS in the movie. Not the Earthmen.
Friendship?
Maria Rambeau and Carol Danvers (Lashana Lynch and Carol Danvers) are supposed to be sister/friends? This one part of the movie blew chunks of directorial and acting offal. I did not believe it for one second. Akira Akbar and Brie Larson (Monica and Carol) on the other hand, worked well together. Fury and Carol worked. Any other pairings? Oddly Annette Benning and Carol worked in part 1 but in parts 2 and 3, they actually stank as much as Lashana Lynch and Brie did in their scenes together. Standing off by himself, Ben Mendelsohn, does a one man show as Talos that almost steals the movie. So much for our Hero? The directors, Ann Roden and Ryan Fleck, obviously screwed up and flunked actor management 101 in Film School. They should have fixed this while shooting. Let us skewer these two failures, and they are failures, next.
Directing in a straight line.
Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck blow it on the technicals, writing, editing and in story pacing. They are Green Lantern AWFUL and Zach Snyder DUMB as movie directors and should be horsewhipped for what they shot and edited in the movie. This is where the movie is killed.
Still. It is our first decent SUPERGIRL film and for the other reasons above I give it acting, directing, writing; 4/2/3 out of 5/5/5
Some blog post comments…
“Oh, and Jimmy remembers how to use a camera.” – LOL! *insert rolling on floor laughing emoticon here* So true; embrace this James more writers – more CatCo James and less every other James!
Ben Lockwood is the Diaz of this season, okay maybe he’s not THAT bad but I am over him; if we’re going to continue this plot can we please have Mercy back leading it?!
“Alex Danvers, Superhero” – always!
“Ah, Kara’s couch…so good.” – I think you just mean “Ah, Danvers sisters…so awesome!” because they’ve had good moments off the couch too. 🙂
I’m actually wondering what will end up being the motivation for James being shot because with the political side after this episode is geared up perfectly for the whole “attack on the press” mirror but next week is Lex (ugh) so it could just be a Lena thing too. I’m actually hoping for more political mirrors with this plot because again no to Superman’s big bad on Kara’s show! Also I am like “Really? You’re so against James just doing CatCo you’d rather shoot him for drama than embrace this plot writers?” so they admitted have me conflicted here. Ha.
Alex is always an MVP; the group would do well to lock Chyler down for an Alex show after “Supergirl” ends in season 9/10/or beyond (bring me all the Danvers sisters goodness with their space daddy and friends scenes!) or to keep her as an agent running between the shows.
“Bring on Lex and let’s step off of this $%^%^&ing Children of Liberty $#@$%@#%#$.” – this should tell you how much I’m against Lex on this show and doing Superman on “Supergirl” – I’d rather watch a Ben Lockwood centric episode again.
On to the podcast…
The Fortress moment was so bad; as Justina said where was Kalex and how did they even find the fortress?!
Here’s hoping for 10+ seasons of “Supergirl”! 🙂
I didn’t mind Mxy when he was on, it’s just how Hat seems much like the Legion ring in that he’s a quick fix for a situation/plot movement and thus often doesn’t feel organic where as everything Mxy did fit his episode so it really boils down to handling as to why I find him annoying but not Mxy.
Remembering TV trivia – prioritizing the important things Justina. Ha! I just get really into continuity for shows because I know we’re dealing with fantasy at the end of the day but that’s no excuse not to have an organic world still and often times an organic path while less flashy on effects can be the better plot arguably long run than a hand wave just to get some cool fight on scene or jump ahead to an organic plot which feels forced at the start because you missed some progression steps as it were. I’m the annoying detail police type of fan. 🙂
“Lex next week – there you go.” – BOO!
Yes Darryl, all the times Kara has ever mentioned her sister and James never thought to bond with her by saying “when me and my sister…” or even Lena talking about Lex; they’ve had so many chances to nod to Kelly before she got her but they never went there which makes me feel they’re just using a proposed love interest for Alex as a double plot source by making her James’s sister also because “everything has to be connected”. Yes it’s great when you can have dual characters like this but Kelly feels very random given we’re just hearing about her now. Haley could have had an assistant Alex crushes on if they wanted to work in a love interest for the back half; we’ll see how it goes but yes there is a very forced/random vibe to Kelly kind of effecting excitement about her already.
Correct Justina, no to big Superman characters on “Supergirl”! 🙂 Mad is putting it lightly; get ready for some angry feedback coming up. 🙂
Hat has the necklace and Manchester has the belt and then we see them use the crystal thing in this episode to make copies of Black; Manchester doesn’t know or care what Hat stole so he doesn’t know what all he has and to be fair all we saw was the necklace getting snatched by him – he could have taken so much more while they were focused on Black so who knows what’s all missing. Well Kalex would but he’s missing too so maybe Hat took Kalex. Ha! I’m sure the missing items will come back in later seasons but I’m not sure we’ll see them in play again this season; I could see Hat selling them to others so when a bad guy of the week shows up later Kara can note one of the missing items thus providing more motivation to stop them, you could almost do a half season hunt for what all was stolen depending on how much was taken.
Manchester to my knowledge still had the ring during most of this episode which is what helps him to fly.
A 20? Wow! Also Monty I agree there is bad coming, I just call it Lex’s addition.
A nitpick Achilles, Manchester and Kara were never friends they just were helping each other at the start to reach a common goal – she didn’t really trust him like she would say James. “Jimmy yawn” – accurate when he’s not embracing his journalist side. I will agree Achilles the extreme stance for both sides is annoying; I’m all for some extremist such as Ben on the bad side and Nia on the good say but there does need to be some more middle ground characters besides Lena as it makes the situation feel more organic and arguably more dramatic than just A vs B. I do disagree though that the sisters are on the wrong side because yes you can want to have protections against bad aliens but that doesn’t mean all aliens are bad and yes you can be mad companies want to use alien tech but again that’s not the aliens fault they’re wanting to use different material because it makes them more; Ben is extremely violent for arguably no reason so I’m all for people wanting to stop him. Just because people are scared it doesn’t mean they’re right for discriminating or attacking others who have done them no harm; again you want to say there should be a pile of Kryptonite in the DEO’s possession ok, but to say everyone should have a stockpile is going too far arguably, again this is by no means a clear A or B situation which is why we need more than just Lena talking middle ground aspects but on the whole I would still say the sisters are the good guys for wanting to stop blind hate like Ben is pushing.
HARD disagree about “Supergirl” being the worst, yes they have issues too but on a whole she is the most complete series I feel when it comes to “best of” categories.
“we have our two leads Supergirl and Alex” – *happy squeal* I will never tire of hearing that Justina! 🙂
I slightly disagree John, I like the show isn’t afraid to tackle big topics but yes they need to commit to them and just having extremes isn’t doing that. They’ve had a whole season almost to address this so time is not an issue I feel, it’s the refusal to commit to it fully and bring up these gray areas – the city does have a reason to want better planetary protection and who’s to say it’s just the humans that want this as maybe some aliens also want it because they fear others pursuing them who aren’t as good. Kara has every right to say kryptonite shouldn’t be available to some people but others are also fair in saying she shouldn’t get to be the only one who knows where it is because what if she’s knocked out by someone like Reign. The aliens are right in they shouldn’t be attacked just because they’re different but also not everyone is attacking them so it would be nice to see more than just James stand up for the dragon guy at the office even though it works better for him as the boss. Would this plot have worked better as a one “very special” episode where you could do the three grounds or even a baby 3 episode arc to put this in the world of the show that yes some are extreme but here’s why others are just cautious? Maybe; but again I don’t mind them tackling this I just wish they’d commit. It’s kind of like “Arrow” season four with Felicity’s chip – that was such an amazing plot that just died out almost after like 3 episodes because “writing her walking is easier” basically; if you’re going to do heavy plots ok providing you commit to all the sides of them and research aspects of it, don’t just do a highlights version. I’m not crazy over the handling each week of this plot for sure but I don’t hate they did it necessarily.
Well said Justina on why things may be extreme right now, it leaves no room to debate what they’re saying – picking on people just because they’re different is bad and not everyone is the same just because they share similar traits.
Honestly, I’m slightly worried for WW84 given she now has to be Flashpoint basically for the DCEU…I’m wondering how much it’s going to play into effecting the story Patty and team already had; also I’m really hoping Steve Trevor is a vision not back really somehow because that would lesson his character for me personally as he went out so well and this is now and okay yes I’m into seeing Wonder Woman/Batman some but still we just lost Steve let the audience have some time to miss him before he comes possibly running back.
Lol, perfection Blackhawkfan with the whole “Who shot JO?” tease! I won’t be surprised if Eve is working for Lex or ends working for him. I don’t mind the group helping Kara as again she knows how to ask for help unlike her cousin and with so many powered people on it makes sense her weight is lessened compared to S1 but I get what you’re saying; I’m actually surprised with so many they haven’t done Kara taking a break and wondering if this is better for her life long run before of course deciding it’s nice to have days off her saving the city is part of who she is so of course Supergirl comes roaring back to protect her home as it’s leader if you will. Yes to the end of Guardian! Hypocrite is James’s middle name.
Agreed Leslie Melissa is killing the little details when it comes to Kara’s expressions with Alex!
“some things just so so right they get bonus points” – I definitely get this Justina, I am an emotional rater also to a degree; as you said I see the issues at times too but some stuff is just so good I think it deserves more than to be knocked down by those parts just as sometimes things are so bad in an episode (see here with Ben) that it brings down the good that is in other plots.
Embrace the DVDs Justina; they have some good extras on them as well for a nice bonus reason to purchase. 🙂
Nia is definitely having fun. I totally agree also Scarlet in that Manchester has been a great villain for the season! Nice “Mean Girls” reference Vixen.
Another reason Lex would shoot James – he’s Clark’s best friend.
NNNOOO not multiple Lex episodes! *sad panda emoji*
In regards to Monty’s “Captain Marvel” comments…
I get where people are coming from with saying Carol didn’t emote really but keeping in mind she has two lifetimes in her head essentially the kind of frozen approach makes sense because she doesn’t know who to trust so I can appreciate it. If she is the same in Endgame then you can say it’s acting I feel because it’s been a bit and Carol knows more now so she shouldn’t feel so lost as it were in regards to personality and memories.
That is fair about the Skrulls but I did like the flip of possible bad guys are actually the good guys and the possible good guys are actually the bad. Some could be evil but I hope after all of this Talos isn’t and for his sake he better hope he isn’t because if he is Carol will end him with extreme force!
I’ll say it – I wasn’t that impressed with the cat; sure he’s neat to a point but for me the real scene stealer were the Rambeaus, they were definitely a highlight for me and really brought up the emotional side of the movie when Carol saw them again.
I didn’t like the eye scratch for Fury, yes circumventing what most thought would be the how is interesting but I’m left more so feeling Fury is kind of a joke now and that definitely brings down his hard level. I do like a sassy Fury and kind of soft him so what we saw in “Captain Marvel” was good but it’s just something about the eye loss from Goose that I can’t help groaning at; I much prefer how he named the team from seeing Avenger as I felt it worked better than the scratch.
I definitely didn’t see the men in the flashbacks as trying to toughen up Carol as if were, yes that might be a byproduct of their verbal assaults but it wasn’t their intent as we saw so I think it shows her just advancing in spite of them not because of them in any way.
There are definitely some down parts to the movie such as pacing at the start but on the whole I really liked the movie and would give it a solid 8 out of 10.
Aaron wrote:
“In regards to Monty’s “Captain Marvel” comments…”
Counterpoint coming.
“I get where people are coming from with saying Carol didn’t emote really but keeping in mind she has two lifetimes in her head essentially the kind of frozen approach makes sense because she doesn’t know who to trust so I can appreciate it. If she is the same in Endgame then you can say it’s acting I feel because it’s been a bit and Carol knows more now so she shouldn’t feel so lost as it were in regards to personality and memories.”
Let us not outrun the data. Brie Larson’s acting was wooden and stiff. We cannot ignore what we see. It may have been her acting choice of what she thinks Carol Danvers should be, based on the material she researched, but if it was, then the directors, Boden and Fleck, screwed up and did not intervene to fix the monotone she affected. You cannot perform a straight flat line as a character and get people to “like” the result. I make no excuses for Brie Larson. She is NOT GOOD ENOUGH in her craft to know how to read a character and present it. Understanding intent is no9t agreement with the choice. I blame the directors. They are supposed to direct. It is their job.
Aaron writes:
“That is fair about the Skrulls but I did like the flip of possible bad guys are actually the good guys and the possible good guys are actually the bad. Some could be evil but I hope after all of this Talos isn’t and for his sake he better hope he isn’t because if he is Carol will end him with extreme force!”
MARVEL has to mine Secret Invasion for a few storylines. The Kree as Mar Vell’s villains go back decades in MARVEL comics, so this is not a true inversion. What makes the Skrulls in this movie so hard to write for this writing team (apparently incompetent in the aggregate) who turned in a pure garbage script, is what I mentioned in passing. The Skrulls are fifth columnists and depending on Kirby or Lee who invented them, either fascists or communists, but always liars and deceivers. How can they represent refugees? They cannot. A good writer will pick up on this element and turn in a good Captain Marvel 2.0 script when Carol realizes that Talos deceived her. There is your “Secret Wars” and a way to create a version of CM, Brie Larson CAN play according to Hoyle.
“I’ll say it – I wasn’t that impressed with the cat; sure he’s neat to a point but for me the real scene stealer were the Rambeaus, they were definitely a highlight for me and really brought up the emotional side of the movie when Carol saw them again.”
Lashana Lynch made ZERO impression on me. If I don’t notice or even care to remember, then the actor’s performance is garbage. Akira Akbar I remember because the child can act and she punched up wooden Brie in their shared scenes and “Humanized” Aunt Carol.
Aaron wrote:
“I didn’t like the eye scratch for Fury, yes circumventing what most thought would be the how is interesting but I’m left more so feeling Fury is kind of a joke now and that definitely brings down his hard level. I do like a sassy Fury and kind of soft him so what we saw in “Captain Marvel” was good but it’s just something about the eye loss from Goose that I can’t help groaning at; I much prefer how he named the team from seeing Avenger as I felt it worked better than the scratch.”
Here, you have to be a Marvel fanboy. Nick Fury currently in Marvel canon is DEAD on the moon as a ghost, Like a Human Watcher, as in a Ringwraith Lord of the Ring’s fashion. the flerkin (not a cat) is straight from the Guardians of the Galaxy story arc, when Kelly Sue de Connick put Captain Carol among Quill’s idiots. The flerkin was never de Connick explained as anything more than a Star Trek type tribble when she invented and introduced it. Since then it has been gradually developed by various MARVEL writers into a trash eater, and some kind of decisive presence, like a deux ex machina to resolve their plot points. Hence, I recognize a space god marking a pet human easily. This scratch has Odin-like consequences for Fury.
Aaron writes;
“I definitely didn’t see the men in the flashbacks as trying to toughen up Carol as if were, yes that might be a byproduct of their verbal assaults but it wasn’t their intent as we saw so I think it shows her just advancing in spite of them not because of them in any way.”
No military service? Common training technique. Almost cliché in fact. Try watching “Sands of Iwo Jima”. As for dad, need to read “The Life of Captain Marvel” by Margaret Stohl. The movie is actually faithful to the current MARVEL canon in showing that Carol Danvers routinely misinterprets and does not get it, what the (Earth) men around her are trying to do to and for her. If you watch the film again, you will see that she is portrayed as naïve and clueless in a lot of things and she is SLOW to catch on to her captors and deceivers.
Aaron writes:
“There are definitely some down parts to the movie such as pacing at the start but on the whole I really liked the movie and would give it a solid 8 out of 10.”
I found it to be exactly the reverse. Part 1 was “good”. Part 2 was decent and Part 3 was offal in the technicals and in the overall direction. Primarily I saw two directors given a script by committee, nobody present with the GUTS to perform an on-the-spot shooting rewrite during the actual filming; and a lot of sheer incompetence in editing, camera work, some of the effects (train sequence).
I, also, now begin to suspect that Boden and Fleck had no confidence in themselves to tell the actors: Larson, Lynch and Mendolsohn what they specifically needed to do to alter the disastrous sloping trajectory the movie has as a continuous falling and boring action. I stand by my 4/2/3 out of 5/5/5.
Monty
“Counterpoint coming.” – bring on the fun discussion Montefescu! 🙂
I don’t know much on Marvel comics so I’m lost to the whole SECRET WARS plot beyond the spy side of things; as you said it’s Marvel and they will mind their properties but to how much for each movie is always the question.
Again I hope Talos didn’t deceive her just because Carol has had enough lies already to try and overcome and again the switch of villains is a refreshing play in the genre. Others can be bad but Talos himself I’m going to hope is good. 🙂
“Akira Akbar I remember because the child can act and she punched up wooden Brie in their shared scenes and “Humanized” Aunt Carol.” – sadly because of age I don’t think we’ll see her back in the next round of Avengers films unless it’s in flashbacks but I do wonder if part of including them in this film wasn’t to set up her character Monica as her comic counterpart Photon later when the roster changes? Maria’s call sign was Photon in this so being Marvel it wouldn’t surprise me. Then again supposedly one of the next up was going to be Ant-Man’s daughter so I don’t know how many young Avengers they’re brining in unless they do a whole Young Avengers movie.
“Quill’s idiots” – this seems fair. Ha. Movie Glamora was smart but the others did make highly questionable decisions. I’m not a big “Star Trek” person either so I know what a Tribble looks like and that they cause trouble but really nothing beyond that; “This scratch has Odin-like consequences for Fury.” – ah, thanks for the background as I didn’t know that.
For me Monty had they shown the male pilot in a later scene say “Good job Danvers” then that scene would have worked for him but because there’s no context beyond that moment he very much comes off as a jerk. For those who read the comics this may make more sense as you say but given I watch the movies more than read the comics for Marvel it’s not something I took the same way.
I don’t know about behind the scenes stuff for this film, but it wouldn’t surprise me if directors didn’t want to correct their big stars especially one who has an Oscar like Brie Larson. I don’t know Larson outside of this film so you can debate did she deserve it but regardless she has the tag of Oscar winner and that may intimidate some. You gave the acting a 4 out of 5 so I’m glad you could at least enjoy the majority of that; maybe the character will be more enjoyable for you in Endgame.
Thanks again for the comic details and taking the time to reply! 🙂
Aaron on March 15, 2019 at 12:22 pm
Aaron wrote:
“Counterpoint coming.” – bring on the fun discussion Montefescu!
I don’t know much on Marvel comics so I’m lost to the whole SECRET WARS plot beyond the spy side of things; as you said it’s Marvel and they will mind their properties but to how much for each movie is always the question.”
If you want to understand a Marvel film, one has to have either paid attention to the rollout advertising campaign that Disney issues to provide the instant education that the viewer needs to understand Skrulls and flerkins; or one needs to know something of Marvel lore to understand what the movie is about. Really that is 80 years of comic book history that is behind a Marvel movie.
Aaron writes:
“Again I hope Talos didn’t deceive her just because Carol has had enough lies already to try and overcome and again the switch of villains is a refreshing play in the genre. Others can be bad but Talos himself I’m going to hope is good.”
Well, if you know how many times Carol Danvers has been deceived and manipulated in her Marvel history… First by her own son who travels back in time to rape her so that she will give birth to him, (The infamous Avengers #200 issue of 1963) or by by Rogue, the X-woman who steals her powers and leaves Carol in a coma as an amnesiac to her befuddlement; by the Brood who hook her up as a power source and effectively turn her into a living quark reactor, the Skrulls are just another in a long line of deceivers and betrayers. Even Monica Rambeau, the future Spectrum, does the double cross to Carol.
Try this… (http://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/)
And this… (https://www.vox.com/2014/11/5/7138099/captain-marvel-background-history-movie)
And this… (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/carol-danvers/4005-21561/)
This will explain a great deal about Carol’s naiveté, why the flerkin shows up, and the misinterpretation that Carol constantly makes as a character to what she sees. She is something of a trusting person to the point of idiocy.
In sum, this is Marvel’s Supergirl, as screwed up and as mistreated by MARVEL editorial as DC editorial ever ruined Kara zor-el’s character bible.
Aaron writes.
“Akira Akbar I remember because the child can act and she punched up wooden Brie in their shared scenes and “Humanized” Aunt Carol.” – sadly because of age I don’t think we’ll see her back in the next round of Avengers films unless it’s in flashbacks but I do wonder if part of including them in this film wasn’t to set up her character Monica as her comic counterpart Photon later when the roster changes? Maria’s call sign was Photon in this so being Marvel it wouldn’t surprise me. Then again supposedly one of the next up was going to be Ant-Man’s daughter so I don’t know how many young Avengers they’re brining in unless they do a whole Young Avengers movie.”
Monica Rambeau and Carol Danvers shared in the comics the same character name for a while. Monica will screw up and almost get Carol killed, and thus Monica and Carol are like Rogue and Carol… enemies.
Aaron writes:
“Quill’s idiots” – this seems fair. Ha. Movie Glamora was smart but the others did make highly questionable decisions. I’m not a big “Star Trek” person either so I know what a Tribble looks like and that they cause trouble but really nothing beyond that; “This scratch has Odin-like consequences for Fury.” – ah, thanks for the background as I didn’t know that.”
Her name is Gamora, as in Sodom and Gamorrah with the same meaning. As the galaxy’s foremost assassin, in “Guardians of the Galaxy” she shows little common sense or ability. Nebula is the better daughter of Thanos. I would also say the brains in Star Lord’s loser crew is the Raccoon. He is the one who is the tactician, the engineer and planner. And unlike the other characters, including Thanos, Rocket’s plan actually work!
Aaron writes:
“For me Monty had they shown the male pilot in a later scene say “Good job Danvers” then that scene would have worked for him but because there’s no context beyond that moment he very much comes off as a jerk. For those who read the comics this may make more sense as you say but given I watch the movies more than read the comics for Marvel it’s not something I took the same way.”
That was a director’s choice. James Gunn would have made a different choice, so would Patty Jenkins. The incompetent crew of Boden and Fleck made their choices and I damn them for it.
Aaron writes:
“I don’t know about behind the scenes stuff for this film, but it wouldn’t surprise me if directors didn’t want to correct their big stars especially one who has an Oscar like Brie Larson. I don’t know Larson outside of this film so you can debate did she deserve it but regardless she has the tag of Oscar winner and that may intimidate some. You gave the acting a 4 out of 5 so I’m glad you could at least enjoy the majority of that; maybe the character will be more enjoyable for you in Endgame.”
There is an old saying… never share scenes with better actors, small children, and animals in a movie, if YOU are the lead. Brie Larson, lost to Samuel Jackson, Akira Akbar, Ben Mendelsohn, and count them; FOUR cats. You would think that after losing out to a CGI monkey in “Kong, Skull Island” Brie would have learned? Nope. Her performance was 3/5 at best. The cats were 5/5. Disney even Youtubed a live feed of the cats as an advertising lead and draw to this movie, that is how much they DISRESPECTED their star and lead and how little faith they really had in Brie Larson.
Aaron wrote:
“Thanks again for the comic details and taking the time to reply!”
You are welcome.
Monty