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[sc:astop]Cammien Ray teams up with a special guest this week: Harley aka Jessica! For Arrow’s 150th episode, in addition to a special guest on Arrow Squad, we have tons of special guests on Arrow itself, as many familiar faces return from the past seven seasons as Team Arrow faces an unfamiliar foe.
This season Arrow will be airing on Mondays at 8pm ET. Our podcast episodes will be posted the following Wednesday, so we can accept email/voice feedback through Tuesday afternoon – and maybe an early Tuesday evening submission might make it in if you’re quick. 🙂
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[sc:as]
#KeepBlackSirenEvil!
It’s the villain take over; hey Harley! 🙂
I agree with Harley, William did feel like a little jerk this episode; I can’t get he’s angry to come home to Oliver doing promotion essentially so it’s like why did I have to stay away for so long because it doesn’t seem like a villain is after you but still the way he talked to Felicity it was like hold up there kid because again as Harley said it felt like angst for angst as I don’t know if he would fully talk to Felicity like that really. I can get some attitude but to the degree he was I don’t know. That was certainly a knock but for me the biggest issue with this plot was everyone outside of Oliver, Felicity, and Black Siren because it just seemed like they also were making drama for drama; half the stuff in this episode could have been avoided had the others acted logically like Oliver did in regards to what’s on tape and what’s not. Also I was personally bummed the confessional cam wasn’t in more of the episode. I thought this episode was going to be shot more like the “X-Files” episode “X-Cops” if you remember that where it’s all on camera basically (parts to be edited later of course) so to see it be 90% normal episode filming to the 10% documentary vibe was a let down; this wasn’t a bad episode but it wasn’t as good as it could have been either. Plus side we only had a hot second of Diaz so plus there! 🙂 Also a plus Siren being shady…I love that most of all! 🙂
Oh how I wish they had explored more the idea of if vigilantes are heroes are not, maybe had they done more cam stuff we would have seen that, because that is an interesting topic…I feel this is a theme with the CW – they start with an interesting idea and then they just ignore it because *insert not great reason here*; as Black Siren said is some of it wearing a mask because they know it’s wrong but want vengeance/to act without consequences? Yes they can do things the cops can’t which helps stop crime at times but what are the effects on how cops are viewed, might someone see Dinah as pointless if Oliver is out there keeping some off the streets she can’t for whatever reason? Here’s one they should definitely approach on “Supergirl” but haven’t yet – who pays for destruction of property in chases?! They did touch on this on “Supergirl” via a comment but who’s to say a criminal can’t use Oliver touching evidence as a way to get off because maybe they can make the jury think he’s trying to set someone up? There’s so much to tackle on this episode but again it just fades off throughout the episode and it’s a let down. Don’t be afraid to let heavy or deep plots linger writers! See Felicity’s chip as another missed opportunity to explore complex things.
Here’s a question: how did they know Rory was Ragman to interview him? They even had “Ragman” in his name slot when the interview kicked off but isn’t the concept of working in secret so no one knows who you are? It’s little things like this that annoyed me in the episode and this had me being less and less hyped as the episode went; I feel a middle grade is fair Cammie because again it wasn’t bad but it wasn’t as great as it arguably could have been either.
I agree that Quentin’s opening was good but I also really liked Siren because of the shade and that perfect look Katie did after the final line, shady Siren is so good, so I’d say those were my favorites although I’d also include Sin because that was just a fun return nod so confessional camera wise those would be my favorites. And Diggle saying “Well that comment didn’t age well.” because that was funny too. 🙂 Sin was the best “non regular” moment; I will say her talking about the toll it takes on people did make me a bit angry only because I thought about Laurel and how they could have let her retire instead of killing her off to kind of nod to this aspect and show you can walk away – this doesn’t have to be all you do and you’re not less heroic for it because another interesting debate with heroes is how much is enough. Does someone have to do something forever to still be a hero or can they say enough is enough and walk away because maybe it has cost them too much; if they’re seen as less than compared to an active hero is that showing the greed of others to want them to continue so they don’t have to or is it kind of selfish to be able to help but not for whatever reason…is it ok to be the human you are or is it an unbreakable pact that once you suit up you can never fully unsuit less your achievements be diminished because you took time for yourself essentially? If you’re required to be a full time hero is there payment involved in doing what you do or is no jail time payment enough? There’s just so many ideas to tackle but again we got a highlight pack more than in depth look and I don’t get why so again middle range on ranking for this episode as both a 150 and episode period.
I took Thea’s footage as old Harley and maybe why Roy wasn’t there is because he’s suppose to be with Nyssa and Thea on their adventure currently so we only get future him right now but I agree I was a little sad we didn’t see him in the present talking about Oliver and why he chose to do what he did in regards to taking the bullet then.
Raza definitely should have been in this!
I thought this week’s villain was very random and there for the sake to have one. No to Malcolm coming back!
Ugh to Black Siren saying she was the former Black Canary, I know it’s her cover but still it feels wrong to hear as SHE’S NOT LAUREL!!! Speaking of her cover, why didn’t they tag her as “Black Canary” along with DA under her name – everyone thinks she’s Laurel and they said Laurel was the Black Canary last season so that feels like a fail on the detail department given they were tagging everyone else they knew the IDs of. I did love her calling out the whole thing over if they knew it was right they wouldn’t wear masks, I don’t agree with it totally as they wear masks to protect their identities also to protect those they care about but still it plays in the realm of her not being a complete good guy so shady girl! 🙂 I will forever keep saying this – they need her more as an anti hero/villain than they ever need her as another good guy!
I don’t think the William-Zoe friendship is out of nowhere Cammie, they are kids whose parents spend a lot of time together so it makes sense they would know each other and bond given they’re the only two close to age around so I don’t mind that. What I do mind is everything connecting to Renee, they do remember Dinah does stuff too right and at one point was having this identity crisis over being a vigilante again or not so where is her screen time and we all know Curtis could use help so I’d rather them back off on Renee’s screen time than Zoe’s. William and Zoe could have cute moments together but like Harley I don’t want to see it take too much time from the adult characters because no one likes to see characters they enjoy more be pushed in the back for others; I like Zoe don’t get me wrong but I also want to see more Siren and Felicity who feel like “Where are you?!” more and more each week sadly.
#BringBackBabySara!
I think it depends on who they want to out Harley, yes there’s footage of Emiko unmasked but Oliver asked them to edit out William so just as easily they could have Emiko’s part out so we see it but it’s not in the actual documentary. The only ones who seem to be out fully are Rory, Oliver, Black Siren is using Laurel’s identity as cover because they outed Laurel last season, and I think Renee because they did have Wild Dog in his tag for his interview but John, Curtis, and Dinah are just shown to know Oliver not confirmed they are Spartan (who sadly looked a lot like Guardian in some shots to the point I yelled “No!” at my screen ha), Mr. Terrific, and Black Canary. And again who’s to say even those part made the video? It’s footage but it’s not cannon outings unless they show full thing so yes everyone could be out but they could also take it back for some and it not really be out of continuity.
Here’s an idea on Black Star, we see Zoe take after Dinah so what if Maya has taken after Black Siren and kind of edited the mantle while Felicity is in hiding or because she just agrees with some things Black Siren has said? She could still be Olicity’s kid she just doesn’t agree with their views on vigilantes…kind of like Diggle and Lyla not agreeing about everything even though they’re family. If by some twist Black Star is Black Siren’s kid I request that her other parent be a lady also because Siren totally has chemistry with and enjoys the ladies I feel (bisexuality exists writers I’m just saying, just because she hooked up with Oliver on Earth-2 doesn’t mean she can’t be with an Olivia on Earth-1)! 🙂
“cause I can’t get nice things that I want.” – ha Cammie!
No one lies as bad as Kara Danvers but still Barry was hard to watch; I look for Scarlet Speedster to be this crew’s next spotlight feature!
Christy, everyone should suspect Black Siren has powers because the team covered her as Black Canary last season so they know Laurel was a vigilante so why not question Siren because of Dinah? Also I’m still surprised no bad guy has asked for a retrial yet on a case Laurel handled because again they could argue set up and maybe get off and it would be interesting to see how Siren feels about cleaning up a mess like that and does she take the legal way or unlawful way to put them back in jail? I so want a scene where she and Oliver got at it in regards to he most of all should remember jail doesn’t stop some so who is he to say she shouldn’t kill a bad guy to save others; I just want my evil/anti hero at best Black Siren…they won’t let Dinah be the anti hero she is anymore so let Siren do it, embrace her shadiness don’t try and erase it!
“Ok that’s all, moving on!” – ha Cammie.
No to Emiko/Renee!
I so hope we see Felicity going all momma bear calling the school to give them a piece of her mind if William is kicked out for being gay! I also hope that actually isn’t why he got kicked out because it would feel cliche arguably, at the least it’s not all he got kicked out for because I could see skipping classes as a reason to expel him also if he just didn’t show up to avoid mean comments. I can’t remember who it was that said it now but I agree it was weird he’d be expelled without Felicity being notified; did he call Oliver before they could call them and that’s why he’s home under some other guise of just fighting maybe or poor grades or did he just say he wanted to come home and if they didn’t get him he’d still run away? There’s a definite gap in what went down with him. If his sexuality is the only reason he got kicked out then I hope they don’t just dismiss it with the school in the interest of time in the episode because it’s something that needs attention if you’re going to tackle the topic.
If they treat characters right on Legends Harley why hasn’t Nyssa been on? Nyssa was supposedly a big love in Sara’s life yet we’ve seen nothing of future her or heard Sara mention her. I get fans love Avalance as Ava is pretty awesome but let’s not forget Nyssa is awesome too; yes I’m still docking “Legends Of Tomorrow” points for their poor use of Nyssa, how they keep letting Katrina not be a regular on shows I don’t know!
Thanks for filling in Harley! 🙂
Montefescu here: Late with my review, so I’ll file it here.
I liked this episode. So let’s tear into it.
Direction, Writing and Production values:
Right from the get go when Kelsey Kramer does his best imitation of Michael Conrad as the narrator, I was hooked. The weird thing is that Glenn Winter manages to mix up shaky cam and tripod shots together in a tour de force of how to use a camera as an actor through the entire episode. If one got the impression of a Jon Davis Hunt type art set piece of framed shots, one might not be too far off. I am reminded that Mark Guggenheim liked to script this kind of nine panel kinetics in his Flash comic runs.
If the right script format is followed one can get away with this kind of comics to film storyboard application and here we have a script that is just kinetic enough to make the superficial set piece scenes string together to form a fast paced story, almost like kinescope writing.
Sets, dress and stage, lighting and sound was adequate to purpose. It did not need to be superb as the story itself has to carry the main burden of making this episode work. I was pleased with the stunt work and I like the pyro and practical effects much with Chimera. Not much Hollyweird physics at work. I can believe gyro-jet gauntlet guns and a taser arrow. Powered armor from Wayne tech was a rubber suit that I found a little hokey and I sure feel sorry for the stunt man who had to wear it, because it must have been hot under the lights.
Acting:
Echo Kellum aside, I thought for episode 150, everybody brings their A-game except for maybe Jack Moore who sure whines a lot and kind of under reads his part. Even Emily Bett Rickarts steps up and surprises me with the proof that she can do a Chyler on cue. So we have some good acting to go into a decent docu-story. I do question the attempt to generate chemistry between Zoe Ramirez and William, though. There is no chemistry through the camera between Eliza Faria and Jack Moore. ZERO. That might be a directing glitch or it just might be the actor playing William. My bet is on the actor, Jack Moore.
Trivia:
Maya? Blackstar? Who is the overall frame device PoV for the docudrama; Is she supposed to be the daughter of Oliver and Felicity? How is J.J. mixed up with her?
Rate it acting, directing, writing: 4/3/4 out of 5/5/5
My review.
Direction, Writing and Production values:
Right from the get go when Kelsey Kramer does his best imitation of Michael Conrad as the narrator, I was hooked. The weird thing is that Glenn Winter manages to mix up shaky cam and tripod shots together in a tour de force of how to use a camera as an actor through the entire episode. If one got the impression of a Jon Davis Hunt type art set piece of framed shots, one might not be too far off. I am reminded that Mark Guggenheim liked to script this kind of nine panel kinetics in his Flash comic runs.
If the right script format is followed one can get away with this kind of comics to film storyboard application and here we have a script that is just kinetic enough to make the superficial set piece scenes string together to form a fast paced story, almost like kinescope writing.
Sets, dress and stage, lighting and sound was adequate to purpose. It did not need to be superb as the story itself has to carry the main burden of making this episode work. I was pleased with the stunt work and I like the pyro and practical effects much with Chimera. Not much Hollyweird physics at work. I can believe gyro-jet gauntlet guns and a taser arrow. Powered armor from Wayne tech was a rubber suit that I found a little hokey and I sure feel sorry for the stunt man who had to wear it, because it must have been hot under the lights.
Acting:
Echo Kellum aside, I thought for episode 150, everybody brings their A-game except for maybe Jack Moore who sure whines a lot and kind of under reads his part. Even Emily Bett Rickarts steps up and surprises me with the proof that she can do a Chyler on cue. So we have some good acting to go into a decent docu-story. I do question the attempt to generate chemistry between Zoe Ramirez and William, though. There is no chemistry through the camera between Eliza Faria and Jack Moore. ZERO. That might be a directing glitch or it just might be the actor playing William. My bet is on the actor, Jack Moore.
Trivia:
Maya? Blackstar? Who is the overall frame device PoV for the docudrama; Is she supposed to be the daughter of Oliver and Felicity? How is J.J. mixed up with her?
Rate it acting, directing, writing: 4/3/4 out of 5/5/5
Monty
“How is J.J. mixed up with her?” – this is a good question Monty!
I feel the easy answer is Maya knew about JJ and asked him to help because she didn’t want to go to William or Zoe for some reason, Zoe probably because she’s a vigilante and Maya isn’t crazy about them, but outside of that it’s very up in the air as to why she picked him as it seems anyone could help her out she doesn’t need a Diggle beside her. As Cammie said having it be a Diggle beside her does feel like a nod that she is an Olicity baby because otherwise why not just have some random with her? Another option is maybe they grew up together because something happens where Lyla and Felicity work together to hid out and build a rebellion, Lyla is good with the secrets after all.