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Hi! This is your eye in the sky Green Butterfly. Silver Vox and I are very thankful for all our superfriends and the community they have helped us build. Now it is time to turn back the clock. Let’s go back to Supergirl’s first Thanksgiving episode. We find our Maid of Steel still trying to find her way as a hero in National City. We get to explore the beautifully complex relationships of mothers and daughters. The first time we got some history of the Danvers family.
Join us for a discussion of what happened when Supergirl’s high flying rescue changes the life of Leslie Willis forever. How does Eliza’s relationship with Kara differ from her relationship with Alex? What is the best pie in the galaxy? We will discuss this and so much more as we continue to explore fan favorite episodes. Will a super friend stop by and say “Hi!”? I guess you will have to push play and find out.
What is the Best Pie in the Galaxy?
- Other (56%, 5 Votes)
- Apple (22%, 2 Votes)
- Chocolate pecan (11%, 1 Votes)
- Peach (11%, 1 Votes)
- Pecan (0%, 0 Votes)
- Cherry (0%, 0 Votes)
- Berry (0%, 0 Votes)
- Chocolate Pudding (0%, 0 Votes)
- Cream (0%, 0 Votes)
Total Voters: 9
Cougar’s Comic Corner
“Action Comics #835 (1938-2011)” by Gail Simone, January 18, 2006
First comic book appearance of the villainous Livewire! Livewire, the shocking villain from SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, jumps into the DCU with deadly results as she gets amped up to take out the Man of Steel!
$1.99 on Comixology!
Next Time On Maid of Steel!
DC Fandome: Reactions, Analysis, and Speculations
Join John and Justina as we discuss everything we learn from this year’s ultimate DC Comic Con: DC Fandome! The event goes from 1:00pm EDT on August 22 to 1:00pm on August 23. Get your feedback in to us by August 25 at 6:00pm EDT! K-Vox approves!!
K-Vox supervising Mrs. Vox on making tonight’s favorite pie – Chicken Pie!
Feedback
We want you to be part of the podcast! After a new episode airs, head over to our feedback site and drop us a quick line, or record a short voicemail, reacting to the events of the episode. What was interesting to you? What stood out? What did the episode do well or, perhaps, what did it not do well? We rely on your input to help round out our conversation and anticipate the opportunity to include your thoughts and theories!
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One comment. The post show Stargirl episode reviews go up, and I see them on my screen as posted, so I do not understand why these are not being seen unless there is a moderator block?
Monty
Doing these in portions due to length…
I haven’t seen anything Monty on “Shining Knight” or “Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E.” part one which is why I made the comment. I figured you would probably post them in the “Pilot” discussion since that’s around when they came out but I just went back to look again and didn’t see one for either. 🙁 I look forward to your thoughts on the finale because for me it was definitely a mixed bag so maybe you can make it better or at least explain some choices. 🙂
Okay so here’s the combination of who knows Kara is Supergirl when she makes the 3 people comment…
Combo A
James (because Clark told him)
Alex (because she knows Kara)
Eliza (because she knows Kara)
Clark (because somehow he magically just knew I guess Kara was his cousin even though he’d never really seen her and could have just thought she was an average Kryptonian; maybe Kara told him because she recognized him)
J’onn (because Jeremiah told him about the girls)
Jeremiah (because he knows Kara)
Total = 6
Combo B – assumes Kara doesn’t count Jeremiah because he was dead
James (see above)
Alex (see above)
Eliza (see above)
J’onn (see above)
Clark (see above)
Total = 5
Combo C – assumes Kara isn’t counting Jeremiah or J’onn because she doesn’t know about him even though he does know about her.
James
Clark
Alex
Eliza
Total = 4
There is ONE way to make it three people and that’s to say Kara means James, Alex, and Clark in that moment, however, are we seriously to believe Eliza didn’t see the news and thus thinks it was someone besides Kara who saved the plane? Going POV though this is the only way to get the 3 but it is still not a factual statement from the audience’s knowledge especially looking back. I will say all these combos don’t take another factor into consideration either and that’s what if Clark told Lois about Kara before he told James? She is supposedly the best reporter in the DCU and can even hang with Batman on investigations so if you put her in you’ll always be over 3 unless you strictly take that line from the character’s POV in which case Kara saying 3 makes sense because in her mind only 3 people know about the save….even though it’s 4 because again you can’t tell me Eliza didn’t see the news, she doesn’t need to see the suit to know that’s her daughter! 🙂
Speaking of the suit, again I say we have the coolest day one suit ever! Stargirl put in good effort to beat us but I think we still would top her. 🙂 As I’ve said the suit now looks too much like Clark’s suit they’re going with and thus our suit NOW can be beat I will agree, but the OG seasons 1-3 suit you just can’t touch in my opinion; it’s gorgeous and basically movie quality. Courtney’s suit takes second place to me and I hope they keep it for season two! That would be an interesting ranking – best super suit; I wonder who would be 3 and on because as I just said one and two are a lock. 🙂
I would like to take this moment to apologize to Briana Venskus, that is the name of the actress who plays Vasquez; I feel so bad for not saying her actual name during the podcast. She does such a good job as the character and I’m pretty sure Vasquez is holding down the desert facility so I wanted to give her more respect. 🙂 I hope to see you back again as Vasquez Briana!!!
In regards to Leslie’s reveal of September 28th for them to return to filming (thanks again for that Leslie as I hadn’t heard the news yet) is it just me or does that seem fast for Melissa? Maybe she’s just going to record Kara stuff and do Supergirl scenes later? Do you think this might be the return of the space suit so the stunt woman can be inside but we just do close ups on Melissa’s face for inside the suit Kara? Might this just be the return date for most of the cast and like many have theorized we might actually get some Alex heavy episodes at the start of the season until Melissa can suit up again? They do call Chyler their second lead all the time so now is the time to kind of let her really go full force on that. Then again series film out of order all of the time so even if it is the main cast minus Melissa what they film could end up as episodes 10-16 and what’s filmed last is actually the start of the season depending on how much they get filmed and edited by the time the season starts on screen. Again maybe it’s just me but September seems kind of pushing it for Melissa and we don’t want her to burn out or get hurt because she returned too soon as then we really would end up with a Kara light season as she heals back up! Given we know Melissa would be slow to return I’m okay with there being a Kara and Supergirl light season, yes it will be weird as it’s her show but I’d rather we take things easy and have her for years than rush Melissa back just to showcase the title character; if there was another reason they were light on Kara things may be different but we know the why so I’m okay with her taking it easy this season…again it will be weird but I just want to keep her safe.
Again Alex is the second lead of the series let’s use her! We could do things like explore her leading the DEO for a full season and revisit the lethal versus non lethal protocols debate they had in season two which just fizzled out because they jumped from plot to plot in later seasons. We could explore her anti hero side and how Kara may agree or disagree with Alex’s decisions and what does that mean for them as co-workers and sisters; they could finally clarify that Kara works WITH the DEO because of Alex not FOR them. Just whatever they do please don’t have it be super suit Alex content as one Alex doesn’t need a suit to be the bad*ss hero she is and two that is probably the worst suit ever created for someone and Oliver was running around in a hoodie at one point! We’ll see how it goes but yeah let’s be careful with Melissa please!
Speaking of careful, Monty has talked about this before and maybe he will expand on it again for us here but it’s just so sad to hear Ruby confirm it’s basically because of the injury she’s not Batwoman anymore. I know accidents can happen but you want to limit those from happening as much as you can and “Batwoman” had two major incidents so they really need to tighten up and protect everyone! As for the show itself, I’m still very meh to it as I said; I want to give the show a watch when it returns just to give it a shot but I don’t see my excitement being as high as it once was for the series as everything has now changed on it.
Everything hinged on Kate’s connections to these characters and so without her Alice just becomes another villain in town, Mary and Jacob are still family yes but you have to work in more their stuff instead of one aspect flowing through Kate to the next and back again and sure Jacob can still hunt Batwoman but the tension isn’t the same as when it’s his own daughter and Mary can still know about the Batcave and maybe she even gets super protective of the identity because it’s Kate’s but it’s like we just had them come to this happy place of knowing who each other were and now that’s gone and yes Luke and Ryan can be friends too but you’re starting all over and what happens if they don’t have the same dynamic as he and Kate (that could hurt ratings); and of course from a “Supergirl” front all the Crisis build up is pointless because we’ll have start again getting to know Ryan if they still try to pair them up on stuff, although now with “Stargirl” moving over to the CW all it would take is a quick merger of Earth’s via some bad guy plot and we could have Courtney and Kara being the new buddy dynamic for the universe as the “Stargirl” cast has made it very clear they all want to do a crossover with us! 🙂 And then there’s the Kryptonite plot, are we just going to have Ryan told about it to keep pushing a Batwoman-Supergirl crossover? This is another case of where we know why the change is happening so why wouldn’t you just recast instead of reboot? If this show was being made in the 90s where the Internet was really just starting and so it took longer to get the real reasons behind show changes then maybe you could get away with a reboot but we know and the fans told the writers we don’t care that her looks will change we just want Kate but they’re like “No, we’re going to do the opposite” and so that leaves me I know as a viewer feeling disrespected and that’s a turn off to season two so the Fandome experience is really going to have to bring it on the “Batwoman” front because as it stands I am not even the least bit excited about season two.
I wish the new lead actress well but yeah I can’t help but feel how I do because it’s like they’re using the Batwoman name without caring about Kate like they say. If they’re going to change characters they should change the series name but they haven’t and that’s why I find it hard to believe Caroline Dries when she says “I care about Kate Kane as much as you fans do”; it may have been true in season one but they’re basically like ‘Kate who?’ in season two. 🙁 Ryan may be an awesome character but I just can’t see her as Batwoman right now even though they plan to call her that; “Batwoman” is just a very mishandled situation on a lot of fronts which is sad as it could have been one of the most look forward to series for the superhero pack.
I’m hoping they announce “Green Arrow & The Canaries” going into production finally because that show has been forever waiting to be green lit it feels; I’ll be honest and say I’m mainly in it because I want to see more Black Siren but still they have a pilot episode basically filmed thanks to “Arrow” and so it’s like what is the hold up?!
I want to take a post to talk a bit more about Leslie, aka Livewire, in particular because for an episode which is entitled after her we did spend most of this podcast I feel talking more about Eliza, Alex, Cat, and Kara. Ha.
I’m going to start by talking a bit more about why Leslie is one of the best villains on this series, arguably the best, and in the DCTV universe.
1. Leslie calls out Kara. She in fact has called out everyone involved in creating Supergirl to a degree at one point or another.
Why this is important: You need people who will check your hero’s ego because if they go unchecked then they just think they can do anything and yes as the hero you want them to do almost everything but when it’s realistic someone would call them out then they need to as characters worshiping another just so the team can stay in good graces with one another just makes those character look foolish and that’s not good. Sure Leslie took some cheap shots at Kara in this episode talking about her outfit and sexuality but in other episodes her questioning of the hero gives them a chance to look at themselves and ask if that’s true and if so how can they improve. Leslie is one of the people who arguably keeps Kara’s ego in check and that’s important. Also Leslie targeting everyone gives everyone a chance to have a comeback and it’s always nice when you can use all of your characters.
2. She is a personally created villain.
Why is this important: Because it’s organic drama; you don’t need to try and make the stakes feel large because they already are as Kara feels responsible for Leslie’s change in this episode and on the series as a whole. Sure you can say at a point she stops caring and puts it all on Leslie because she tried to help her but there’s always going to be that vibe of “What if Kara hadn’t touched her then and she was just Leslie Willis still?”. Also this opens up the world for what happens if someone gets injected with Supergirl’s blood? I think that’s how Lucy became Superwoman. What if Kara touches someone and they’re hit with a different form of energy – what kind of powers might they get and would they be lasting like Leslie’s or would they only be temporary and what’s the difference to cause that? There’s a lot of science fun you could have with what it means that Kara made Livewire basically on a physical side. Also there’s always the question of will Kara attempt to save her because while she may write her off at times again you still have where Kara feels responsible so that story point is always there.
3. She is not easy to kill. In this episode we see Kara’s heat vision actually recharged her in a sense.
Why is this important: Again organic drama. You genuinely worry for the hero because their strengths can be used against them in a sense!
4. Leslie can attack at range and in melee and actually has the strength to kill Kara.
Why is this important: It makes fights interesting! Kara can’t take down what she can’t hit and while she is physically stronger than Leslie one on one as noted above some of her strengths can be used against her so while her punch can take out Livewire Leslie again can attack at range which makes getting that punch in not so easy and thus you have an actual challenge for Kara without one side being held back to make the fight go longer.
Leslie actually when you look at her combines multiple villains’ abilities as she can hop in tech like Indigo and is thus hard to hit and just as Silver Banshee can kill Kara at range just by saying her name Livewire can stop Kara’s heart at range if she tries hard enough, it may take longer to pull off but she can do it. Thusly Leslie is two villains in one!
5. She has hilarious dialogue and a memorable performance.
Why is this important: Because it means fans want to see more of her! 🙂
I know some may argue Reign is the best villain because of how she beat Kara down and how she’s got the personal connection with Sam, but I’d say Leslie can give her a fight break down point to break down point. 🙂
Again props to Brit Morgan for helping to make such an enjoyable character! She reminds me a lot of Hudson Leick’s work on “Xena: Warrior Princess” because like Hudson’s character of Callisto Livewire is only in a handful of episodes but she makes the most of them and is often easily a highlight. I really do hope they bring Leslie back for an episode at least (they can of course do more if they want; also please let Caitlin Parrish write for her when she does); maybe that’s one thing Crisis can do right – bring back Livewire to our Earth because she’s not dead. No body no death and there was no body on the fort when Kara turned around! 🙂
It is late, Aaron, so I will answer a lot of these questions tomorrow, but let me hit a couple tonight.
The number of people who know Kara is Supergirl aside from herself of whom she knows, before James tells her he knows, is:
Liza
Alex
Clark
and Winn when Kara tells him. But functionally when Kara says only three people know her secret, she assumes Jeremiah is dead, she does not count herself and I don’t remember if Winn found out before she told him, so it is to my mind… three.
Liza, Alex and Clark.
As for the Stargirl reviews. I posted them. I do not know why they are not showing up on your screen except maybe that they are awaiting moderation. I cannot do anything about it. It is up to the moderators.
Monty
Some blog post comments…
I love the banner for the week!
K-Vox is so cute! 😀
I don’t know if you caught it during the “Stargirl” season finale but they’re doing a Fandome preview on the CW August 18th as a heads up!
On to the podcast…
Here’s a link to the site which talked about “Take Me To Church” having LGBT connections – https://www.popsongprofessor.com/blog/2015/04/15/what-does-take-me-to-church-by-hozier-mean .
Wow my accent is more pronounced than I thought. I hope this was worth everyone’s time to listen! Critiques are wanted and welcomed! 🙂
I still say any Lena heavy episode has to be done by Daryl as he is her legal representation for the fandom. 🙂 Monty clearly has “Red Faced” when that comes up as he said that was his favorite. Leslie has to do something because she has all the details for numbers and then whoever is up for things yes come on because it’s always cool to hear people get in deeper on their favorites. 🙂
I have to say for me again “Stargirl”‘s finale feel short; there was just a lot of weird choices like how the ISA had no issue taking on the adult JSA but they get owned by young JSA, Icicle especially felt held back in what his true power was suppose to be and what we had seen leading up to this. I would still put “Stargirl” season one in the number two spot but yeah after all is season and done for me “Supergirl” season one is still the best season of the DCTV universe!
I don’t care how many times I listen to it the Eliza-Alex scene still gets me every time emotionally! ❤️???
“If I could legally adopt her, I would.” – I love Kara’s look when Cat says that. 🙂 “…you’ll be National city’s highest paid traffic reporter.” and “Looks like it’s going to be a bumpy ride.” – I love that exchange every time; that was such a great stand off between those two! 🙂
James is a good vote, but I’m still not convinced he is the OTP John; I look forward to your case for him though as well as other fans making their case for who they think is it and why. If you even feel Kara needs and OTP romantically on the series because it is very valid to say she doesn’t as not all female leads have to be paired up with someone romantically by series end! Also if we’re just going general I say it’s Alex; romantic is more of a debate for Kara, I would guess currently the list looks mainly like James, Mon, Lena, and other. 🙂
Going back for a moment about that end scene, I won’t lie – I’d love to see a scene of Alex and Kelly at that gay bar Cat mentioned. Ugh the bar…another reason to be sad about “Batwoman”, who’s going to run that now?! But yes, give me flirty Alex because it will just be so good with Chyler’s little touches I know it! As an example take the little head shake she does in this episode when Kara says she should just tell Eliza the truth about what she does; there was a lot of coming out talk in this episode which again given Alex is a major player in it I do wonder if it’s part of the foreshadow for her coming out that was planned?
My personal apologies to all the listeners for my mic quality and reception issues, I know that doesn’t make for a great listening portion so SORRY. My phone is all I have for online meetings.
Are you mad at me Daryl because I said no to more Lena? 🙂
I love your consistent demand for Derek to be better Monty! 🙂 I’m still surprised you gave even the acting in this a -20 but we all have our opinions; we will have to agree to disagree on this one. 🙂 Although I am dying to know why the acting got such a hit and the directing; okay even the writing, negative I don’t see it but even if you go there a 20…please elaborate.
I still feel a lot of what Alex said in “Alex In Wonderland” doesn’t fit her character because the way she spoke about Jeremiah felt very flip from how she’s always been with him but then again it’s a season five episode and we all know how I feel about season five.
I agree with SO MUCH of your feedback Leslie!
Re the pie consistency: think pumpkin pie like, or maybe a chess, but the pie is all chocolate (not counting the crust).
The ingredients are as follows (according to ye oldie notebook paper)…
1 cup sugar
1 cup milk
3 eggs
1/2 cup Hershey’s chocolate syrup
6 large marshmallows
1 table spoon flour
Mix the flour with the sugar before adding the eggs and milk.
You’re going to use a double boiler to basically cook your filling here before it goes in the oven. You want to make sure all the marshmallows are melted fully before you go to the crust. You need to keep an eye on it and stir every so often so the filling doesn’t burn/stick and again you’re basically going to cook it and most of the moister out of it using the double boiler, when the filling is done you’re going to put it in the crust to finish off (any remaining moister should bake off here).
Oven and bake times are not included because everyone’s is different depending on how old the equipment they’re using is; I have learned via cooking that a 20 year old oven gets a lot hotter on 350 than a new oven on 350 can so use your best judgment!
I really can’t be mad at you for saying no to more Lena because most of the time we get more Lena she’s isolated from the larger cast and I don’t appreciate that at all. My favorite episode is actually fort rozz. Though I do heartily defend Lena and I didn’t start thinking she knew Kara was Supergirl just because I knew which many other people did.
Take me to church was a pretty inappropriate song for that scene. I love the song but I was just cringing the entire time.
When do you think Lena knew Kara was Supergirl or at least suspected?
I refuse to believe the show pitch that she only knew when Lex told her as to say that’s true is an insult to Lena’s supposed genius IQ. I think little things added up for her because Kara is a bad liar, “I flew here…on a bus” as an example because even if a bus could fly above traffic it’s still a heavy bus and there for is not going to get there as fast as Supergirl can at times. Also after spending enough time with Kara there’s the fact Supergirl sounds and looks like her so. 🙂
i think lena knew when lex told her just how the writers did it. lena is only ever as smart as the writers say she is. we have to remember just because we see obvious clues doesn’t mean characters do.
these writers are so in love with drama there’s no way they wouldn’t have lena find out in an epically dramatic way
I’m looking forward to seeing how you rank the season finale for “Stargirl” Monty, and anyone who wants to add in their rating, because for me it didn’t stick the landing (yes I’m using gymnastics puns because of Courtney).
Icicle felt so depowered suddenly and the way he’s taken out was just random; also you want to talk about bad dialogue Barbara saying no one ever got hurt because of how someone thinks was just the dumbest line I’ve heard on TV possibly ever. I know they needed her to respond to Jordan in that moment but that was just such a bad choice! There were good moments to the episode (such as Cindy finally being out of the box and wreaking havoc) but I didn’t like things such as the flip flop from Yolanda telling Rick killing wasn’t the answer and then she just totally murders Brainwave without a second thought; religion plots rarely are executed well on series so I’m nervous about that becoming a theme in season two potentially for her and thusly in part the show.
On the whole I gave part 2 a 7; if you watch it as a two parter back to back it may go up to an 8.5 at least because the first part was good.
For the season I would give “Stargirl” a solid 8 out of 10 because they did some really good character stuff the likes of which we haven’t seen since season one of “Supergirl”, but the ending just feels like such a let down. I still feel comfortable saying “Stargirl” season one is the second best premiere of a CW DCTV show, but now that all is said and done it’s just confirmed “Supergirl” season is the best superhero premiere ever, in my opinion certainly. I’ve said it before but I will say it again “Supergirl” season one is pretty much perfection! 🙂
I wish I could post the reviews (Moderator needed.) but it is fair to say 20/20/20 for “Shining Knight”.
It is 50/50/50 for Stars and Stripe” Part One.
It is 20/20/20 for Stars and Stripe” Part Two.
Not since “Sleeping in Light” which is an episode from Babylon 5 have I ever been so pleased with the technicals, writing or acting in a series of episodes. the only fail was some of the direction.
Monty
That’s a bummer about your reviews Monty! 🙁
I’ve never seen “Babylon 5” so I can’t speak to that comparison but could you please explain to me why you enjoyed Icicle’s death in this?
I think this is going to be one of my biggest issues with the episode, if not the biggest, because again we see him easily wiping out the adult JSA but the kids suddenly give him trouble even though they’ve only had their powers for like a month compared to the adults; also why is it he can be shattered by a truck from the 80s but a cosmic space staff blast he just walks off? I just felt they really held Icicle back from what he really could have done and that was a bummer to see. This and Barbara’s line about the way people think never hurting anyone just really annoyed me with this episode but I do have some nitpicks also such as where are Sportsmaster and Tigress and Yolanda’s no killing hypocrisy.
I hope the parents being gone doesn’t mean we won’t get Artemis in season two because I’m hoping she’ll be a flip flop character sometimes working with the JSA and other times with Cindy; she could be fun.
As for the season, I feel like Justin was pretty pointless and wish they had saved him for season two or even just revealed him in this final episode as he comes back to help fight Ito because he remembers and this is where we learn who he is; this is one of those situations where if you take him out I feel nothing would change and so I’m left wondering what we could have done with that time instead. I’m wondering who’s going to be the roster for next season because they basically killed all their bad guys this season. And again I don’t feel like the finale stuck the landing.
I feel I know your answer to this, but I’m going to ask anyways because you may surprise us: where would you rank “Stargirl” season one for the CW DCTV line up now that you’ve seen the full first season? 🙂
Do you remember how Joey Warick died? Icicle iced down the bridge so that a pickup truck could not stop in time and The Wizard’s son was run over. The pickup truck driver simulated that he was horrified. I remember that actor turned in a good bit part for those scenes. I also remember Neil Jackson’s own excellent portrayal of a cold blooded murderer as he did it. (Hah, PUN!)
As Icicle is about to kill Courtney and Barbara, Mike Dugan takes a similar pickup truck and hits Icicle in mid-transformation.
Now Mike Dugan is the cathartic retribution (teenager protecting his family) and that pickup truck, the same kind that killed Joey, is the plot Chekov.
How do you like your desserts, Audience? With the Irony Cream and Sublimity Cherry on top, Mr. Johns. One just dessert for Icicle coming up!
Now I seriously believe that Mike Dugan is going to have issues about this murder in the future if the writers of this show are any good, and boy are they GOOD at writing this show.
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If you want to understand what I mean by comparing this episode to “Sleeping in Light” you just have to watch Babylon 5 en-toto and then watch this episode in conclusion. It is The Expanse on STEROIDS.
You cry, Aaron… you cry when it is done.
Monty
“Lena is only ever as smart as the writers say she is.” – which time? That seems to change moment to moment to fit their needs which is a continuity issue and one of the many reasons fans have been disappointed in the recent seasons. Lena is suppose to be a rival to her brother Lex who was able to figure out Clark is Superman so Lena can’t figure out Kara is Supergirl because…it’s say one thing do another and that’s very frustrating; there’s no reason Lena shouldn’t be able to suspect at least given how much time she’s spent with Kara.
It’s manufactured drama as you say and that’s bad drama!
Do you remember when there was drama on the series but everyone was still in character? Season one remembers!
I know people say sometimes you can’t believe what’s in front of your face and so I could get Lena blocking it out for a bit, but all the way until season four just seems out of character to Lena and that’s not a good thing. She can not want to believe it for some reason and she can lie to herself about it when with others but she had to know. If she can figure out Sam she can figure out Kara!
I get wanting drama on series but again manufactured drama is never the write kind to have, that is where the “CW-ified” tag comes in and what leads to series sometimes being mocked. Again we know the writing team when well assembled can do organic drama so embrace that! It’s just so frustrating!
“which time?” every single time LOL “If she can figure out Sam she can figure out Kara!” not if the writers say differently. finding out sam is reign is far less dramatic than finding out your best friend has been lying to you from the start
But we’ve seen Luthor V Super already Daryl; why not try a Super and Luthor who get along? Yes it’s less dramatic for them but imagine the drama for other villains – they’d be terrorified! *sigh* I miss when Kara was written like an individual instead of them copying her cousin’s plots. 🙁
KARA IS NOT CLARK WRITERS!!!
Reason 1,673 why season one is the best season of the series – Kara is her own person with her own opinions of people regardless what her cousin has to say about them. 🙂
“Now Mike Dugan is the cathartic retribution (teenager protecting his family) and that pickup truck, the same kind that killed Joey, is the plot Chekov.” – okay, I can see where you’re coming from with this and had it been more earned I could have been okay with it.
My question would still be how did Mike know where they were to hit Jordan exactly with the truck? Had it been Rick because his hour was out and he found a nearby vehicle I could be more satisfied or had it been Beth finding one I could be more satisfied but Mike feels like being it just to bring him into the fold and as Martin on Tomorrow’s Legends has discussed I don’t know if that’s a good idea. It’s one thing for Mike to know about the YJSA (young Justice Society Of America) but it’s another for him to be on it.
I personally agree with Martin in that I’m fine with Mike helping to do tech for the squad but I don’t want to see him in a costume or getting an artifact!
As for them actually exploring the murder, I think that’s going to depend on if they can keep their writing team. If they can then maybe they will but if they don’t we may see him just shrug it off while Beth has a more in depth plot over Chuck. Even if they do address it but it’s not the same staff it’s fair to ask will it be the quality of season one; we’ll see how it goes but I’m not as confident as you that it’ll even be addressed.
In regards to “Babylon 5”, all I know about it really is Katie Sackoff is in it and it’s in space and they aren’t who they think they are but that’s it. I hear it’s a good series so if it’s ever on from the start here I might give it a go. 🙂
Going to try again.
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Aaron on August 14, 2020 at 12:35 pm
“Now Mike Dugan is the cathartic retribution (teenager protecting his family) and that pickup truck, the same kind that killed Joey, is the plot Chekov.” – okay, I can see where you’re coming from with this and had it been more earned I could have been okay with it.
My question would still be how did Mike know where they were to hit Jordan exactly with the truck? Had it been Rick because his hour was out and he found a nearby vehicle I could be more satisfied or had it been Beth finding one I could be more satisfied but Mike feels like being it just to bring him into the fold and as Martin on Tomorrow’s Legends has discussed I don’t know if that’s a good idea. It’s one thing for Mike to know about the YJSA (young Justice Society Of America) but it’s another for him to be on it.
I personally agree with Martin in that I’m fine with Mike helping to do tech for the squad but I don’t want to see him in a costume or getting an artifact!
As for them actually exploring the murder, I think that’s going to depend on if they can keep their writing team. If they can then maybe they will but if they don’t we may see him just shrug it off while Beth has a more in depth plot over Chuck. Even if they do address it but it’s not the same staff it’s fair to ask will it be the quality of season one; we’ll see how it goes but I’m not as confident as you that it’ll even be addressed.
In regards to “Babylon 5″, all I know about it really is Katie Sackoff is in it and it’s in space and they aren’t who they think they are but that’s it. I hear it’s a good series so if it’s ever on from the start here I might give it a go. 🙂
=====================================================
Katie Sackoff is not in Babylon 5. She is in “Battlestar Galactica”. The character you want is Susan Ivanova played by this actress:
https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Susan_Ivanova
Claudia Christian
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0160004/
She will NEVER be unemployed, because she is “The Right Hand of God” and that is a quote from “Babylon 5” that her character says about herself. Next to Bruce Boxleitner she is the best actor Stracynski hired for that show. Simply terrific.
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And one more time…. test.
Stargirl (TV Series) “Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E. Part Two” (2020)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Greg Beeman … (directed by)
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Geoff Johns … (written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order)
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat / Miss Kitty
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Jake Austin Walker … Henry King Jr. / Braindead jr.
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle sr.
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / CHUM (Clued-in Heroic Universalist Mom).
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Dr. Mid-Nite / Charles McNider (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sports Dude
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigger
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler
Joel McHale … Sylvester Pemberton
Stella Smith … Artemis Crock
Ashley Winfrey … Jenny Williams
Max Frantz … Isaac Bowin / Tuba Guy until he gets the fiddle
Jasun Jabbar Wardlaw Jr. … Brian Tanner Balloid (as Jasun Jabbar)
Sam Brooks … Travis Thomas
Nick Basta … Mr. Levine
Lexi Rabe … Leeanne
Tim Misuradze … Mr. Moder
Milli M. … Miss Drake (as Milli M.)
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Troy Rudeseal … Manager
Beorht Ayisi … High School Student (uncredited)
Skyler Knight … High School Student (uncredited)
Reid Pittman … American Dream Employee (uncredited)
Jaci Ruffley … High School Student (uncredited)
Shawn Weston Thacker … Student (uncredited)
Review: I’m not sure we should treat this episode as a standalone piece in what Johns intends as the coda to his first story arc.
Let us examine some of the problems that Johns presents and tries to fix in these 42 minutes.
Morality Kittens.
Hour Dude and Miss Kitty have been paired off as the morality twins ever since Yolanda got her catsuit and Rick got the hourglass necklace as an accessory. Since Inversion is one of Geoff Johns’ favorite literary writer tricks, we have a whole season of the Rick character on his avenge his parents kick and Yolanda moving through how Geoff Johns imagines a Roman Catholic goes through a crisis of faith, when circumstances, justified or not as objectively observed, lays the sin guilt trip on the Roman Catholic in question. Johns borrows heavily from Stan Lee and Ann Nocenti and “Daredevil” to mimic the Matt Murdoch thing in Yolanda as to love and religion, but if one wants to get to the heart of her intended darkness, one has to look at the crazed writing of Frank Miller and the morality puppetry of Ed Brubaker to see Yolanda fleshed out. It is not plagiarism to mimic from one’s peers and Geoff mimics Miss Kitty into the ultimate inversion of pure vengeance. What makes it work is that Yvette Monreal, in what may be the finest acting in the episode, brings a “Spanish” and “feline” flavor to her vengeance. Cold-blooded murder with a dash of hot anger that scene was.
Now Hour Dude beats the crap out Solomon Grundy and I understand that some viewers speculate that the Rick character does not know that he fights a zombie. From the way I read the scene, Hour Dude knows it is an unthinking animal with no moral cognizance and hence not culpably responsible; that is Solomon Grundy is an animal with animal feelings but no sapience about right or wrong as a morality choice. It is a zombie. I would still have urged zombie control as a practical measure anyway, but Hour Dude did the sane correct thing for him, the Rick character’s mental health; which was to decide not to kill out of revenge. Up to the fight, Hour Dude has been questionable as a childish human being, in the mental health department. He earned himself a dose of Adult Perspective in that fight. Now he has to learn to distinguish between practical battle necessity and the quality of mercy. If one wanted to see where Geoff Johns gets all of this material as a source then one needs to read Peter Alan David’s Hulk run on both sides of the Schizo; that is Bruce Banner and the Hulk.
Villains.
Icicle finally gets to rant. Does it come out of left field as he tries to justify himself to Barbara Whitmore on the Bell Tower? Not really. It is the payoff to the whole Jordan Mahkent / Barbara Whitmore “courtship” subplot all season long. I mean, if it is “damsel in distress” time, which character is going to be the Penelope Pureheart and which character is Snidely Whiplash and who gets to be Dudley Do-Right? You have to write that one and play it “broad” to make it work. And of course within that broadness, comes the second murder of the episode as the brat runs over the villain with a pickup truck.
It is supposed to be COMEDIC as well as Cathartic to see Icicle killed in that ridiculous fashion. With a pickup truck?
Braindead sr. has been a monster from zero. His function as a facilitator and means to an end has not disguised his cancerous infectious presence as a mere plot device. He is not so much an original motivator as Icicle is, as he is a mere murder tool; a self-aware and morally cognizant murder tool, but a mere tool. As long as he sticks to facilitation, he does alright by the ISA as the tools, but Johns has shown us all season, that when he tries to act or think for himself, he lets his writer designed character flaw as to how people act, think and love, blind him. No human empathy exists in him whereas even the other villains have someone they love, such as The Gambler and his cat. So it was satisfying to see that character flaw be the reveal and the trigger event that sets off Miss Kitty and the instant throat slash.
As for why did Braindead sr. not just read Miss Kitty’s mind?
a. He was exhausted from trying to brain-wipe and re-program 75 million people.
b. Miss Kitty was somehow emotionally shielded because she was a “kid”.
c. He was trying to prove to himself how clever he was.
d. He could not read Miss Kitty because she was not thinking about her team mates, but about finding the machine.
Any of this entire list of excuses, suffice for the throat slice and Miss Kitty taking the time to watch Braindead sr. bleed out.
Sports Dude and Tigger have been foot-soldiers and insofar as they have been Artemis Crock’s back story and an example of bad parenting to counterpoint how the Whitmore-Dugans operate, that has been their plot function. It is to Johns’ credit that these unfit parents have been interesting villains in their own right. I mean one does not have to look far for Tigger. Does Joy Osmanski, as Tigger / Paula Brooks, not remind you of the Antje Trau, the exuberant and happy in the head villainess, Faora-Ul, which frankly was the best bit of work in Zack Snyder’s “Man of Stupid” 2013 movie? Sports Dude might as well be American Dad. It says so right on the tin character he is.
The Gambler loves cats and money. Not necessarily in that order. He may be comedy relief, but I predicted he would be the most dangerous ISA character this season and I was correct. He lived to fight another day. Besides I like the actor. With very little to use, he created a part and a character one will see again and like to see scheme inside the scheme as he did this time. Besides, who will our JSA Bat-gerbil match wits with?
Solomon Grundy, the Zombie, will return on Tuesday.
Solomon Grundy,
Born on a Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Grew worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday.
That was the end,
Of Solomon Grundy.
Doctor Ito has been more a season plot McGuffin than a real 3-d villain. It was predictable that X-23, er Shiv, his failed experiment and daughter, Cindy Burman, would turn out to be more successful than he realized. She kills him, thereby unwittingly saving 75 million people, Sir Justin and presumably the day.
Post Mortems or what follows the dead bodies?
The Shade makes his post-coptalytic appearance to remark that he warned Icicle that the New America Plan would never work.
Shiv has her future laid out for her.
https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2552285/who-is-stargirls-eclipso-heres-what-we-know-from-the-comics
Not too good for a character who is already a few French fries short of a happy meal. Shiv finds that little plot grenade in William Zarick’s, the Wizard’s, cellar; remember? Who will possess whom?
The Gambler, before he pulls his exeunt sinister, if you noticed, was doing a screen look-over to see what Beth and Charles had done to his portfolio. Expect him to be looting charities and foreclosing old folks homes next season.
Solomon Grundy is lurching around out there. He will have to be cleaned up.
I suppose Sylvester Pemberton will want his staff back. Good luck with that one. The staff has its new pet human and she is a much better class pet, Sylvester.
Cycles.
And I will leave the viewer with these observations.
This season took a year. Christmas to Christmas. However the ISA was wiped out two weeks before Thanksgiving on 13 November. (Friday the 13th if you have a calendar handy for 2020.)
What other bad things happened to bad people on this date? (Well, from my point of view, “good” things, because bad people do deserve the works, and that is a “good” thing.)
https://www.onthisday.com/events/november/13
Notable examples.
1775 American Revolutionary forces capture Montreal
1875 National Bowling Association organized in NYC
1937 NBC forms first full-sized symphony orchestra exclusively for radio
1942 Chaotic “sea battle of Friday the 13th” at Guadalcanal
1952 KLBK TV channel 13 in Lubbock, TX (CBS) begins broadcasting
You know … good things … bad people.
Six weeks later, we find out what that gift is that Courtney has held onto for her whole young life for her “dad”. It is a coffee mug. Now that she has one, well, Pat will be using that coffee mug a lot.
Mike Dugan seems happy and well-adjusted after proving that he needs driver’s education and a massive dose of psychotherapy. A 13 year old should not so casually hit and run over a human being without some issues. (Tick… Tick… Tick).
Is there some reason that the whole JSA celebrates Christmas with the Whitmore-Dugans as if they WERE the Whitmore-Dugans?
What do you think?
By the way, Barbara Whitmore is no longer the Clueless Villain Mom *(CVM). She has graduated to CHUM (Clued-in Heroic Universalist Mom).
Technicals.
Acting in rank of performance.
1. Luke Wilson
2. Yvette Monreal
3. Brec Bassinger
4. Eric Goins
5. Neil Jackson
6. Joy Osmanski
7. Cameron Gellman
8. Eric Goins
9. Meg deLacy
10. Amy Smart
Not that the entire cast was good, they were, but these were the ten I noticed for their performance.
Direction was better than one should have expected with a season wrapup, so kudos to Greg Beeman for competent PoV, good staged fight sets, Post-production for a Georgia show, illustrates how much better Atlanta’s talent is better than Vancouver’s. Shocking? Not really. Just a different mindset about caring and wanting to put out a good product. When you are Number Two, you try harder.
Writing is Geoff Johns. With all the good and bad, it is mostly GOOD.
Rate it all, 20/20/20 out of 5/5/5 for acting, directing and writing.
Monty
Could someone clue me in on which episode I need to re-watch next? it is hard tp predict I am looking at either: “Human for a Day” or “Red Faced” if we are going by good and/or chronological order.
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Aaron on August 14, 2020 at 7:57 am
““Lena is only ever as smart as the writers say she is.” – which time? That seems to change moment to moment to fit their needs which is a continuity issue and one of the many reasons fans have been disappointed in the recent seasons. Lena is suppose to be a rival to her brother Lex who was able to figure out Clark is Superman so Lena can’t figure out Kara is Supergirl because…it’s say one thing do another and that’s very frustrating; there’s no reason Lena shouldn’t be able to suspect at least given how much time she’s spent with Kara.”
Understanding that there is artistic license and that there is some innate difficulty among different writers to keep things like character awareness and abilities and traits consistent when different writers approach the same character is a problem.
Consider the Daredevil example I used for Miss Kitty on STargirl. The Ann Nocenti version of Wildcat should be more analytical, socially conscious and self introspective about Daredevil and his relationship with the great arch adversary love interest anti-social Typhoid Mary. You get psychodrama and the story of the mind conflicted by what is loved and what is right. This is a climb-up from Ed Brubaker Daredevil, who is all fists and no brains and is Kingpin fixated and rage-revenge driven, or fascist Frank Miller Daredevil who is right wing Murdoch on a political law and order agenda with a leavening of Catholic guilt thrown in to make him not completely insane like Batman or Derek Simon Supergirl is at times.
No consistency at all, except for the radar sense, social causes,
“It’s manufactured drama as you say and that’s bad drama!”
It is incompetent writing and the sign of a BAD story editor. Which for now, in season one, is our little writer friend; you know who.
“Do you remember when there was drama on the series but everyone was still in character? Season one remembers!”
Did I not just show that there was a problem there in “Livewire”?
“I know people say sometimes you can’t believe what’s in front of your face and so I could get Lena blocking it out for a bit, but all the way until season four just seems out of character to Lena and that’s not a good thing. She can not want to believe it for some reason and she can lie to herself about it when with others but she had to know. If she can figure out Sam she can figure out Kara!”
The smartest person I ever saw in action was Richard Feynmann. While everyone else around him was trying to create some complex explanations for situations or problems that somehow missed the mark or did not “satisfy” to the “need for understanding” which is an inherent hardwired part of our need for order hardwired in us, monkeys, he would just seem to sleepwalk among the rest of humanity and we would kind of ignore him, until he turned that blazing intellect toward us and say, “This is what happened and this is the solution.” Then collectively, the rest of us, would immediately know three things: he was right, it was elegantly simple, the answer, and just how STUPID we were. and are. He was no charlatan, like Noam Chomsky, who pretended to be smart. That man WAS smart in his humble way. That is how I like to think Lena should be written. She is humble smart and should embarrass the heck out of rest of us, and continue to amaze with surprising revelations of her wisdom and empathy. She should have known Kara was Supergirl from the smart, that Alex and Kara were a pair of honest deceivers and that needs of the story or not, Lena, as a character, should always be gently aware of how handicapped the rest of us are around her, and not hold our disability against us.
She should be superhuman THAT way. You can needs of the story Lena as long as that part about her remains consistent. It is sufficient to be the bedrock for why she feels alone and betrayed, but can a writer (Derek Simon) think that deeply and consistently about the characters of this show? Derek Simon, for example, is no Geoff Johns. He is the Noam Chomsky ego-superficialist to the Richard Feynmann humanist.
“I get wanting drama on series but again manufactured drama is never the write kind to have, that is where the “CW-ified” tag comes in and what leads to series sometimes being mocked. Again we know the writing team when well assembled can do organic drama so embrace that! It’s just so frustrating!”
If you wanted organic drama on a CW show, prior to Stargirl, you had to limit yourself to “Black Lightning” or particular seasons of “The Flash”; *(Thinking of “Nora” here.) or chunks of Supergirl with the Reign storyline. Otherwise you would have to hang the concept of drama up with all the messaging that gets in the way of the “organics”.
If the hired writers are propagandists instead of story-tellers, one winds up with polemics and pretensions. Again, Noam Chomsky and not Richard Feynmann. Or Derek Simon and not Geoff Johns or to a lesser extent, Sterling Gates.
Whenever you see manufactured drama and superficiality and ham-handed messaging as the first, last and only story drivers: BLAME Derek Simon and writers like him.
=========================================
Now lets see if we can do this…. test.
=========================================
Stargirl (TV Series)“Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E. Part One” (2020) (112)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Toa Fraser
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Melissa Carter … (written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) verified as complete
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat /Miss Kitty
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv / Miss Psycho Plot Device
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle sr.
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / Clued in Villain Mom
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon Kingy
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sports Dude
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigger
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin / Virtuosa / Dead Body # 1
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler / AKA not Kenny Rogers
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Grandma Nazi
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Grandpa Nazi
Max Frantz … Isaac Bowin / Fiddler Jr.
Review: What can one do with this episode? The ISA plan is revealed as Myriad 6.0; except that Geoff Johns wrote the original story treatment as an ISA plot way back In 1999-2000, so the Supergirl writers ripped HIm off, and not the other way around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E._Vol_1
Anyway, Professor X of the X-men wants Cerebro back and Bat Gerbil will show up to reclaim his Brother Eye ground control station. This episode is a killer, as one of the highlights features Hour Dude Jr. finally figuring out how the 1966 Mustang, his father, Rick Tyler, owned; is more important to dad than his wedding anniversary, his son’s birthday, his own social security number or you know, stuff that someone might use to encrypt a secret journal that hides the evidence that Hour Dude Sr. gathered on the Insane Volksturm of America in Blue Valley. Subtle hint that Hour Dude sr. was not the great parent, that Hour Dude jr. thinks his dad is. I will comment on that parenting theme in a moment.
Which brings up another point: it is POLITICS, Ladies and Gerbils. Icicle sr., being the crazed Bond villain madman and fascist, Zorn expy, from “View to a Kill” that he is, feels he has to have Braindead sr., broadcast his version of his ‘Mein Kampf’.
What is it?
Universal Health Care.
Global Warming Amelioration
Civil Rights guarantees for everybody based on non-discrimination of gender preference, national origin, skin color or citizen status.
And fair housing and work for everybody who wants it…
… whether they want it or not, and he will kill them or reprogram them to make it happen.
You know the spiel. One issue agenda politics for special interest groups gathered under the rubic of “leftism” (read totalitarianism) masquerading as “progressivism”.
Hour Dude Jr. even comments; “If this is what they want, are they the ‘bad guys’?”
I will only say, that historically fascists and other totalitarians couched their social agendas in “social justice” language that hid their real agenda to seize power and simply tell people what to do to meet their underlying evil ideological goals of anti-individualism, even if they had to mass murder in the process to do it. Or in other words, they were on a power-trip to feed their egomania and their sense of pseudo-intellectual superiority. (Noam Chomsky vs. Richard Feynmann.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harvest_of_Sorrow#:~:text=The%20Harvest%20of%20Sorrow%3A%20Soviet%20Collectivization%20and%20the,the%20Institute%2C%20started%20doing%20research%20for%20the%20book.
If one wants my view on what Johns is saying in this episode, he is asserting that the ISA are indeed more horrific than they superficially appear to be, because those monsters “murder their own children” and family loved ones; in the name of their ideological purity, and selfish egotism, as Stalin and Hitler ACTUALLY DID.
Recap this in the series so far.
Braindead jr. dies at the hands of Braindead sr., because jr. rejects his dad’s ideology of people are evil and must be forced to “do good”.
The kicker is that Braindead sr. does not even believe this spiel, but is a fellow traveller to Icicle sr.; as a remora is to a shark, since it is fundamentally selfish emotional egotism that drives this villain train.
Icicle kills Wizard jr. to teach Wizard sr. a lesson, and kills Wizard sr. when he seeks a Parent’s revenge.
Shiv is Doctor Ito’s “Weapon X” experiment gone wrong. This episode, Braindead sr. even tells Cindy Burman that she is nothing more than a failed Gerbil experiment and her dad, who created her as a mere weapon, so regards her. Shiv is too delusional to clue in, but wait for it Gerbils…
How do Grandad and Grandma Icicle Nazi treat their son Icicle sr.? See the theme? Ideological Purity Uber Familis.
Sports Dude and Tigger are certainly another case example of abusive self centered egotistical parents. Look at how and what they do to their daughter, Artemis Crock to fulfill their own needs before their daughters needs. No less than another monster, Anaya Bowin, points this out to them, calling them unfit parents, as well as incompetent villains after Sports Dude and Tigger fail to dispatch the Dugan-Whitmores. It is not being called incompetent villains, that cause Tigress and Sportsmaster to kill Virtuosa. It is being made to face their incompetence as parents and being told that they hate their daughter that causes them to murder their fellow ISA member, Virtuosa.
Not that Virtuosa is too swift at parenting skills herself as she tells her son, Isaac, that the way to handle bullies, is to be like his dad, that is put a fiddle bow through their skulls.
Contrast that to the way the Dugan-Whitmores, Barbara and Pat, take in and care for:
–Yolanda Montez, rejected by her family for one error in judgement.
–Beth Chapel, ignored and not mentored by her own parents.
–Rick Tyler; troubled orphan
–Janitor Justin; burned out super-hero and mentally-addled janitor with amnesia.
And how they actively parent and mentor Courtney and Mike. So much so is this shown this episode, that when Sportsmaster beats the crap out of Pat Dugan, it is Mike, who has been “neglected” but despite such is still so nurtured and loved on and so happily crazed; so that his first instinct is to put a drill bit through Sportsmaster and when that schlub takes his eye off Pat to murder Mike, Pat gives him the Mister Goodwrench upside the head. Parent fighting for his child. Son fighting for his father. Out of love.
Genuine love, not the diseased version that Shiv showed for Doctor Ito, for father and son have a 2-way bond.
This is what Geoff Johns preaches and promotes and teaches when he writes comics and when he does super-heroes versus super-villains. It is love versus ideology; empathy for good and for others, instead of hate that embraces evil and the egotistical self as the default.
And of course, with the knockoff Cerebro and a demented villain with this hate thing going on: who intends to infect Middle America with Fascism R’Us, and change 100 million minds to hate like his does, it sure comes across that 25% of the target audience will NEVER turn to the dark side and will die.
Do the math. How many people did Stalin murder again? Including his own NIECE?
THAT is how to tell a story and social message, while doing it.
Rate the episode: 50/50/50 out of 5/5/5
Monty
Okay so turns out I know nothing on “Babylon 5” as I totally just confused it for “Battlestar Galactica”!
Given all she’s been in I’ve probably hear Claudia Christian’s voice before Monty, but I can’t say I recognize her from any show exactly.
In regards to “Stargirl”…
I definitely don’t think Rick knows yet the truth about Solomon; that will be interesting to see with his character when he does and how that changes ideals for him. I do hope they keep Rick sane as you said when Grundy does return because you just know he’s going to return; maybe not in season two but he will be back!
I definitely missed the humor on the Icicle death; I understand better what they were shooting for with the mirror to Joey as you explained Monty, but it still doesn’t work as a death for me. It just feels meh at best. Maybe that’s me hoping for more or maybe it’s just because Mike was involved and that feels random as again had Rick or Beth been behind the wheel the scene would have worked better for me but as is I’m left more frustrated seeing it than cheering.
“Miss Kitty was somehow emotionally shielded because she was a “kid”.” – how does that effect anything?
Gambler has potential, but so far he’s just holding steady for me; I wouldn’t call him funny yet but he is a good tech challenge for them. Sportsmaster and Tigress are also still around so hopefully we’ll see more of them in the future. At the least give me some Artemis in season two please writers!
I know people have said John’s regrets some of the stuff that happened with Eclipso involving select characters so I hope he uses the the show to rewrite those because if certain characters go I am going to be mad!
I don’t see the point in Starman returning; had Courtney blown out the staff’s power fighting Icicle then it would be one thing he returns to help her power it back up because maybe he never told anyone that secret as a way to stop others from using it, but as is I’m just currently picturing a boring plot where the staff debates who it wants to be with before ultimately picking Courtney so the show can continue. Maybe they’ll surprise me but right now again I don’t get the addition.
“This season took a year. Christmas to Christmas.” – I know the series started with the Christmas season and ended with it but Courtney was 5 at the start and then at the end is at least 15 so how do you get the season went a year Monty? I took it more that Courtney moved to Blue Valley about the start of October at the latest and late August at the earliest because school in America usually starts the second week of August full on and school had already started when Courtney is shown at the location so at best the first season is about 4 months in real time. You have the 6 week time jump at the end which brings us through all of December basically and part of Nov and we got the Halloween party early in the season so that’s late October thus I’d say season one was more fall than 1 year in time. True it goes Christmas to Christmas for the first scene to the last but season one is only actually about 4 months.
Speaking of time though, I doubt they’ll do it now that Pat and Courtney are in a good place but I think it would be fun to see Pat and Courtney first meeting and then Courtney and Mike’s first meeting just to see how those went over. You can even do Mike meeting Barbara and what everyone’s first thoughts on each other might have been. 🙂
“Is there some reason that the whole JSA celebrates Christmas with the Whitmore-Dugans as if they WERE the Whitmore-Dugans?” – I can definitely see Pat adopting Rick now that he knows who he is related to his old friend, Beth I think was just there as a friend because she really wanted to spend time with her new friends and her parents are happy she has friends so they said she could hang out for a few hours, and Yolanda’s parents don’t even acknowledge she’s a person anymore so she probably just skipped out. Also Yolanda in my mind is a future Whitmore-Dugan because #WildStar or StarCat (whichever you go with; bottom line Courtney and Yolanda are perfect together)! 🙂
The big question is what happened with the principal’s body? Did the clan bury it somewhere? Did someone else take it? Why did no cops find it? Are there even cops in Blue Valley because I have yet to see even a police car on the street much less someone in uniform!
Why is Eric Goins both 4 and 8 on the list Monty? 🙂 Ooh, are you going to do top 3 performers of the week next season for each recap?! That could be fun.
I’m glad you got to get this recap up! 🙂
Aaron on August 15, 2020 at 2:49 pm
“Okay so turns out I know nothing on “Babylon 5″ as I totally just confused it for “Battlestar Galactica”!
Given all she’s been in I’ve probably hear Claudia Christian’s voice before Monty, but I can’t say I recognize her from any show exactly.
In regards to “Stargirl”…
I definitely don’t think Rick knows yet the truth about Solomon; that will be interesting to see with his character when he does and how that changes ideals for him. I do hope they keep Rick sane as you said when Grundy does return because you just know he’s going to return; maybe not in season two but he will be back!
I definitely missed the humor on the Icicle death; I understand better what they were shooting for with the mirror to Joey as you explained Monty, but it still doesn’t work as a death for me. It just feels meh at best. Maybe that’s me hoping for more or maybe it’s just because Mike was involved and that feels random as again had Rick or Beth been behind the wheel the scene would have worked better for me but as is I’m left more frustrated seeing it than cheering.
“Miss Kitty was somehow emotionally shielded because she was a “kid”.” – how does that effect anything?
Gambler has potential, but so far he’s just holding steady for me; I wouldn’t call him funny yet but he is a good tech challenge for them. Sportsmaster and Tigress are also still around so hopefully we’ll see more of them in the future. At the least give me some Artemis in season two please writers!
I know people have said John’s regrets some of the stuff that happened with Eclipso involving select characters so I hope he uses the the show to rewrite those because if certain characters go I am going to be mad!
I don’t see the point in Starman returning; had Courtney blown out the staff’s power fighting Icicle then it would be one thing he returns to help her power it back up because maybe he never told anyone that secret as a way to stop others from using it, but as is I’m just currently picturing a boring plot where the staff debates who it wants to be with before ultimately picking Courtney so the show can continue. Maybe they’ll surprise me but right now again I don’t get the addition.
“This season took a year. Christmas to Christmas.” – I know the series started with the Christmas season and ended with it but Courtney was 5 at the start and then at the end is at least 15 so how do you get the season went a year Monty? I took it more that Courtney moved to Blue Valley about the start of October at the latest and late August at the earliest because school in America usually starts the second week of August full on and school had already started when Courtney is shown at the location so at best the first season is about 4 months in real time. You have the 6 week time jump at the end which brings us through all of December basically and part of Nov and we got the Halloween party early in the season so that’s late October thus I’d say season one was more fall than 1 year in time. True it goes Christmas to Christmas for the first scene to the last but season one is only actually about 4 months.
Speaking of time though, I doubt they’ll do it now that Pat and Courtney are in a good place but I think it would be fun to see Pat and Courtney first meeting and then Courtney and Mike’s first meeting just to see how those went over. You can even do Mike meeting Barbara and what everyone’s first thoughts on each other might have been. 🙂
“Is there some reason that the whole JSA celebrates Christmas with the Whitmore-Dugans as if they WERE the Whitmore-Dugans?” – I can definitely see Pat adopting Rick now that he knows who he is related to his old friend, Beth I think was just there as a friend because she really wanted to spend time with her new friends and her parents are happy she has friends so they said she could hang out for a few hours, and Yolanda’s parents don’t even acknowledge she’s a person anymore so she probably just skipped out. Also Yolanda in my mind is a future Whitmore-Dugan because #WildStar or StarCat (whichever you go with; bottom line Courtney and Yolanda are perfect together)! 🙂
The big question is what happened with the principal’s body? Did the clan bury it somewhere? Did someone else take it? Why did no cops find it? Are there even cops in Blue Valley because I have yet to see even a police car on the street much less someone in uniform!
Why is Eric Goins both 4 and 8 on the list Monty? 🙂 Ooh, are you going to do top 3 performers of the week next season for each recap?! That could be fun.
I’m glad you got to get this recap up! :)”
======================================================
Hmm. I’m glad we disagree on so much, because IN DIVERSITY IS SYNTHESIS. Or to put it in Hegelian terms, new ideas come from thesis pitted against antithesis and the result is better than the beginning.
Hour Dude is still not quite adult enough to nuance and finesse his morality.
Miss Kitty is not capable of being brain-washed like the 60 million kids inside the range of Doctor Ito’s mind zapper Cerebro knockoff. That is a MAJOR plot point.
Icicle got his as “Just Desserts”. It is a PUN. I love puns, especially a groaner like that one. Mike has to behind the wheel, because Icicle is threatening, Pat, Barbara and Courtney, all people who supposedly are more powerful than he, but who cannot get it done. “Get ‘er done” is the expression and that is what Mike is there to do.
The move from California is definitely (to me) sometime during school break, so it feels like “Xmas” fits that break interval.
Anaya Bowman is dead. Sorry, Aaron, but Doctor Ito was the resurrection guru and Cincy took care of daddy as she promised.
Of course Virtuosa could be resurrected via a Lazarus Pit.
It is comics!
Next we’ll see if I can put up a recap for Part 1?
Stargirl (TV Series)“Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E. Part One” (2020) (112)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Toa Fraser
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Melissa Carter … (written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) verified as complete
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / Clued in Villain Mom
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sportsmaster
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigress
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin / Virtuosa / Dead Body
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Grandma Nazi
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Grandpa Nazi
Max Frantz … Isaac Bowin / Fiddler Jr.
Review: What can one do with this episode? The ISA plan is revealed as Myriad 6.0; except that Jeff Johns wrote the original story treatment as an ISA plot way back In 1999-2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E._Vol_1
Anyway, Professor X of the X-men wants Cerebro back and Bat Gerbil will show up to reclaim his Brother Eye ground control station. This episode is a killer, as one of the highlights features Hour Dude Jr. finally figuring out how the 1966 Mustang, his father, Rick Tyler, owned; is more important to dad than his wedding anniversary, his son’s birthday, his own social security number or you know, stuff that someone might use to encrypt a secret journal that hides the evidence that Hour Dude Sr. gathered on the Insane Volksturm of America in Blue Valley. Subtle hint that Hour Dude sr. was not the great parent, that Hour Dude jr. thinks his dad is. I will comment on that parenting theme in a moment.
Which brings up another point: it is POLITICS, Ladies and Gerbils. Icicle Sr., being the crazed Bond villain madman and fascist, that he is, feels he has to have Braindead Sr., broadcast his version of his ‘Mein Kampf’.
What is it?
Universal Health Care.
Global Warming Amelioration
Civil Rights guarantees for everybody based on non-discrimination of gender preference, national origin, skin color or citizen status.
And fair housing and work for everybody who wants it.
You know the spiel. One issue agenda politics for special interest groups gathered under the rubic of “leftism” masquerading as “progressivism”.
Hour Dude Jr. even comments; “If this is what they want, are they the ‘bad guys’?”
I will only say, that historically fascists and other totalitarians couched their social agendas in “social justice” language that hid their real agenda to seize power and simply tell people what to do to meet their underlying evil ideological goals of anti-individualism, even if they had to mass murder in the process to do it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harvest_of_Sorrow#:~:text=The%20Harvest%20of%20Sorrow%3A%20Soviet%20Collectivization%20and%20the,the%20Institute%2C%20started%20doing%20research%20for%20the%20book.
If one wants my view on what Johns is saying in this episode, he is asserting that the ISA are indeed more horrific than they superficially appear to be, because those monsters “murder their own children” and family loved ones; in the name of their ideological purity as Stalin and Hitler ACTUALLY DID.
Recap this in the series so far.
Braindead jr. dies at the hands of Braindead Sr., because jr. rejects his dad’s ideology of people are evil and must be forced to “do good”.
Icicle kills Wizard jr. to teach Wizard sr. a lesson, and kills Wizard sr. when he seeks a Parent’s revenge.
Shiv is Doctor Ito’s “Weapon X” experiment gone wrong. This episode, Braindead sr. even tells Cindy Bowman that she is nothing more than a failed experiment and her dad, who created her as a mere weapon, so regards her. Shiv is too delusional to clue in, but wait for it Gerbils…
How do Grandad and Grandma Icicle treat their son Icicle sr.? See the theme? Ideological Purity Uber Familis.
Sportsmaster and Tigress are certainly another case example of abusive parents. Look at how and what they do to their daughter, Artemis Crock. No less than another monster, Anaya Bowin, points this out to them, calling them unfit parents, as well as incompetent villains after Sportsmaster and Tigress fail to dispatch the Dugan/Whitmores. It is not being called incompetent villains, that cause Tigress and Sportsmaster to kill Virtuosa. It is being made to face their incompetence as parents and being told that they hate their daughtger that causes them to murder their fellow ISA member, Virtuosa.
Not that Virtuosa is too swift at parenting skills herself as she tells her son, Isaac, that the way to handle bullies, is to be like his dad, that is put a fiddle bow through their skulls.
Contrast that to the way the Dugan/Whitmores, Barbara and Pat, take in and care for:
Yolanda Montez, rejected by her family for one error in judgement.
Beth Chapel, ignored and not mentored by her own parents.
Rick Tyler; troubled orphan
Janitor Justin; burned out super-hero and mentally-addled janitor with amnesia.
And how they actively parent and mentor Courtney and Mike. So much so is this shown this episode, that when Sportsmaster beats the crap out of Pat Dugan, it is Mike, who has been “neglected” but despite such is still so nurtured and loved on so that his first instinct is to put a drill bit through Sportsmaster and when that schlub takes his eye off Pat to murder Mike, Pat gives him the Mister Goodwrench upside the head. Parent fighting for his child. Son fighting for his father. Out of love.
Genuine love, not the diseased version that Shiv showed, for father and son have a 2-way bond.
This is what Geoff Johns preaches and writes and teaches when he writes comics and when he does super-heroes versus super-villains. It is love versus ideology; empathy for good, instead of hate that embraces evil as the default.
And of course, with the knockoff Cerebro and a demented villain with this hate thing who intends to infect Middle America with Fascism R’Us, and change 100 million minds to hate like his does, it sure comes across that 25% of the target audience will NEVER turn to the dark side and will die.
Do the math. How many people did Stalin murder again? Including his own NIECE?
Rate the episode: 50/50/50 out of 5/5/5
eta
No. Apparently not… yet.
Monty
It was TOTALLY Cerebro! 🙂 Them killing Bowan felt random and pointless; I knew the moment she said Tigress was a bad mom they would kill her but it’s like why when the ISA is so limited in personnel as it is?! My thing is just what happened with the body?
In case you haven’t seen it yet, here’s a rough line up for Fandome – https://tvline.com/lists/dc-fandome-schedule-tv-panels-flash-batwoman-stargirl/ .
“Supergirl” is basically non existent. 🙁 I get Melissa won’t be there but Nicole and David are and wasn’t Jesse suppose to be there also? If we’re really suppose to start filming again in September why wouldn’t they take this time to hype up some new season stuff? If they bumped Kara to promote Clark more I am going to be p**sed! ?
Even “Stargirl” which just started and only recently announced it would get a season two has a panel listed! “Flash” which goes back later than us to film has a panel. You’ve got a whole persons of color panel going headed by Candice but Azie isn’t on that, what’s up there; “Black Lightening” has two of their cast members attending! I don’t know who’s considered part of Latinx and who’s not, but if Cubans are then we have someone who can be on that panel as Odette is Cuban in part. It feels like every show that DC has on currently is being represented in some form except “Supergirl” and that’s not cool!
I know season five sucked but all the more reason to hype up season six and what you have planned for it; unless that’s part of the problem, they don’t know yet what’s going to be the main arc of season six even though they’ve had months to work on it.
Much like with “Batwoman” when they announced the reboot instead of recast I am more so feeling dread right now that excitement. 🙁 Hopefully they’ll come up with something to add but right now there’s a very glaring hole in their line up and on their panels in general when it comes to “Supergirl”. I know David’s and Nicole’s panel is one of the longest as far as time but still it’s not like it’s just them on that panel; this is just very frustrating, looks like you’ll be recapping the DC universe more than “Supergirl” next week John and Justina.
Aaron on August 16, 2020 at 12:41 am
“It was TOTALLY Cerebro! 🙂 Them killing Bowan felt random and pointless; I knew the moment she said Tigress was a bad mom they would kill her but it’s like why when the ISA is so limited in personnel as it is?! My thing is just what happened with the body?”
You may be asking me to crawl inside Geoff Johns mind to explain why Anaya Bowan was murdered.
I have a theory as to why I would write her demise that way, but I’m not sure it matches Johns’ reasoning. It goes like this:
–Each ISA villain has been shown to be a selfish egotistical parent who operates on a hate matrix instead of a love matrix.
–Each ISA villain’s child has shown to be the mere instrument of the ISA villain parent’s ambition or ideological goals instead of being loved for the individual unique human being that child grows into as an adult.
–The interactions between ISA villain parent and child is a distaff version of what good parenting and familial love should be.
–ISA parents do not like being called out as unfit parents any more than any other parents, only as they take it very personally when they are called on it, they kill coaches, fellow ISA villain parents, and their own kids, when they get called out.
Now as to the diseased matrix characteristrics:
–Ito and Shiv. Mad scientist and Lab-rat daughter? It sure looks like Cindy went cuckoo for cocoa puffs very young and Doc Ito never forgave her for “accidently” killing mom, when the experiment happened. He keeps throwing that in Cindy’s face. Notice that Cindy is utterly clueless as to how to win friends and influence people the right way? Also, if she “loves” her father, it is like Stockholm Syndrome kid would act.
–Wizard and Wizard jr. Maybe this is the closest an ISA parent actually comes to loving his kid. It does not end well.
–Braindead sr. and Braindead jr. It is the father demands son be an evil chip off the old evil block model and when the son refuses to enter the criminal family business, well daddy-o cuts him off literally.
–Icicle sr. and Icicle jr. Most twisted father-son and extended family relationship possible. Jordan hides who he is from his son. It will be interesting to see how Icicle jr. develops now under the tutelage of Grandpa and Grandma Nazi. Did one forget those two? I did not and neither has Johns.
–Virtuosa and her son. This one is weird. Virtuosa seems to fall into that category of parent who drives her child into artistic endeavor (a Tuba?) but allows her child to choose his own “evil” path with helpful evil suggestions along the way. Fiddler II is in the works, but I still cannot get over that Tuba. Not even a proper Sousaphone? How Mergatroid can one get?
–Sports Dud and Tigger and Artemis Brock. I am perplexed as to whether these characters are to be counterpoint to The Montez family or to the Dugan-Whitmores. Those whack-job parents sure remind me of Yolanda’s parents inverted in how they mistreat their daughter. Miss Kitty gets the rejection treatment while Artemis is smothered in “super-parenting”. Cue the baseball bat and another coach under the north goal-posts.
————————————————
–Is Anaya Bowan alive or zombified into a Dr. Ito drone? Comic books. Cue the Lazarus pit and Fiddler II bringing mom back from the dead.
–Sports Dude and Tigger are in jail. Maybe Artemis breaks them out, or maybe the Whitman-Dugans take in another orphan?
–Icicle jr. is being project Nazied by his grandparents.
–Cindy is playing games with Eclipso. That will end well… not.
–Pat remarked that Doc Ito cannot be killed. Maybe Cindy will have dear old Dad dug up for some reason?
Anyway… pick your own poison plot and prepare for Season 2.
———————-
In case you haven’t seen it yet, here’s a rough line up for Fandome – https://tvline.com/lists/dc-fandome-schedule-tv-panels-flash-batwoman-stargirl/ .
“Supergirl” is basically non existent. 🙁 I get Melissa won’t be there but Nicole and David are and wasn’t Jesse suppose to be there also? If we’re really suppose to start filming again in September why wouldn’t they take this time to hype up some new season stuff? If they bumped Kara to promote Clark more I am going to be p**sed! ?”
Season 5 was an absolute shambles. They may be still be picking up the pieces.
“Even “Stargirl” which just started and only recently announced it would get a season two has a panel listed! “Flash” which goes back later than us to film has a panel. You’ve got a whole persons of color panel going headed by Candice but Azie isn’t on that, what’s up there; “Black Lightening” has two of their cast members attending! I don’t know who’s considered part of Latinx and who’s not, but if Cubans are then we have someone who can be on that panel as Odette is Cuban in part. It feels like every show that DC has on currently is being represented in some form except “Supergirl” and that’s not cool!”
I know and now I am worried.
“I know season five sucked but all the more reason to hype up season six and what you have planned for it; unless that’s part of the problem, they don’t know yet what’s going to be the main arc of season six even though they’ve had months to work on it.”
Season 5 was an absolute shambles. They may be still be picking up the pieces.
“Much like with “Batwoman” when they announced the reboot instead of recast I am more so feeling dread right now that excitement. 🙁 Hopefully they’ll come up with something to add but right now there’s a very glaring hole in their line up and on their panels in general when it comes to “Supergirl”. I know David’s and Nicole’s panel is one of the longest as far as time but still it’s not like it’s just them on that panel; this is just very frustrating, looks like you’ll be recapping the DC universe more than “Supergirl” next week John and Justina.”
Sheesh; when the draw is Maines and Harewood, that has got to be frustrating, but at least 2 of the better actors represent. Jesse Rath can go to Manitoba and fish for all I care about him, now.
“Could someone clue me in on which episode I need to re-watch next? it is hard tp predict I am looking at either: “Human for a Day” or “Red Faced” if we are going by good and/or chronological order.
==========================================
Aaron on August 14, 2020 at 7:57 am
““Lena is only ever as smart as the writers say she is.” – which time? That seems to change moment to moment to fit their needs which is a continuity issue and one of the many reasons fans have been disappointed in the recent seasons. Lena is suppose to be a rival to her brother Lex who was able to figure out Clark is Superman so Lena can’t figure out Kara is Supergirl because…it’s say one thing do another and that’s very frustrating; there’s no reason Lena shouldn’t be able to suspect at least given how much time she’s spent with Kara.”
Understanding that there is artistic license and that there is some innate difficulty among different writers to keep things like character awareness and abilities and traits consistent when different writers approach the same character is a problem.
Consider the Daredevil example I used for Miss Kitty on STargirl. The Ann Nocenti version of Wildcat should be more analytical, socially conscious and self introspective about Daredevil and his relationship with the great arch adversary love interest anti-social Typhoid Mary. You get psychodrama and the story of the mind conflicted by what is loved and what is right. This is a climb-up from Ed Brubaker Daredevil, who is all fists and no brains and is Kingpin fixated and rage-revenge driven, or fascist Frank Miller Daredevil who is right wing Murdoch on a political law and order agenda with a leavening of Catholic guilt thrown in to make him not completely insane like Batman or Derek Simon Supergirl is at times.
No consistency at all, except for the radar sense, social causes,
“It’s manufactured drama as you say and that’s bad drama!”
It is incompetent writing and the sign of a BAD story editor. Which for now, in season one, is our little writer friend; you know who.
“Do you remember when there was drama on the series but everyone was still in character? Season one remembers!”
Did I not just show that there was a problem there in “Livewire”?
“I know people say sometimes you can’t believe what’s in front of your face and so I could get Lena blocking it out for a bit, but all the way until season four just seems out of character to Lena and that’s not a good thing. She can not want to believe it for some reason and she can lie to herself about it when with others but she had to know. If she can figure out Sam she can figure out Kara!”
The smartest person I ever saw in action was Richard Feynmann. While everyone else around him was trying to create some complex explanations for situations or problems that somehow missed the mark or did not “satisfy” to the “need for understanding” which is an inherent hardwired part of our need for order hardwired in us, monkeys, he would just seem to sleepwalk among the rest of humanity and we would kind of ignore him, until he turned that blazing intellect toward us and say, “This is what happened and this is the solution.” Then collectively, the rest of us, would immediately know three things: he was right, it was elegantly simple, the answer, and just how STUPID we were. and are. He was no charlatan, like Noam Chomsky, who pretended to be smart. That man WAS smart in his humble way. That is how I like to think Lena should be written. She is humble smart and should embarrass the heck out of rest of us, and continue to amaze with surprising revelations of her wisdom and empathy. She should have known Kara was Supergirl from the smart, that Alex and Kara were a pair of honest deceivers and that needs of the story or not, Lena, as a character, should always be gently aware of how handicapped the rest of us are around her, and not hold our disability against us.
She should be superhuman THAT way. You can needs of the story Lena as long as that part about her remains consistent. It is sufficient to be the bedrock for why she feels alone and betrayed, but can a writer (Derek Simon) think that deeply and consistently about the characters of this show? Derek Simon, for example, is no Geoff Johns. He is the Noam Chomsky ego-superficialist to the Richard Feynmann humanist.
“I get wanting drama on series but again manufactured drama is never the write kind to have, that is where the “CW-ified” tag comes in and what leads to series sometimes being mocked. Again we know the writing team when well assembled can do organic drama so embrace that! It’s just so frustrating!”
If you wanted organic drama on a CW show, prior to Stargirl, you had to limit yourself to “Black Lightning” or particular seasons of “The Flash”; *(Thinking of “Nora” here.) or chunks of Supergirl with the Reign storyline. Otherwise you would have to hang the concept of drama up with all the messaging that gets in the way of the “organics”.
If the hired writers are propagandists instead of story-tellers, one winds up with polemics and pretensions. Again, Noam Chomsky and not Richard Feynmann. Or Derek Simon and not Geoff Johns or to a lesser extent, Sterling Gates.
Whenever you see manufactured drama and superficiality and ham-handed messaging as the first, last and only story drivers: BLAME Derek Simon and writers like him.
=========================================
Now lets see if we can do this…. test.
=========================================
Stargirl (TV Series)“Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E. Part One” (2020) (112)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Toa Fraser
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Melissa Carter … (written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) verified as complete
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat /Miss Kitty
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv / Miss Psycho Plot Device
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle sr.
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / Clued in Villain Mom
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon Kingy
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sports Dude
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigger
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin / Virtuosa / Dead Body # 1
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler / AKA not Kenny Rogers
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Grandma Nazi
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Grandpa Nazi
Max Frantz … Isaac Bowin / Fiddler Jr.
Review: What can one do with this episode? The ISA plan is revealed as Myriad 6.0; except that Geoff Johns wrote the original story treatment as an ISA plot way back In 1999-2000, so the Supergirl writers ripped HIm off, and not the other way around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Stars_and_S.T.R.I.P.E._Vol_1
Anyway, Professor X of the X-men wants Cerebro back and Bat Gerbil will show up to reclaim his Brother Eye ground control station. This episode is a killer, as one of the highlights features Hour Dude Jr. finally figuring out how the 1966 Mustang, his father, Rick Tyler, owned; is more important to dad than his wedding anniversary, his son’s birthday, his own social security number or you know, stuff that someone might use to encrypt a secret journal that hides the evidence that Hour Dude Sr. gathered on the Insane Volksturm of America in Blue Valley. Subtle hint that Hour Dude sr. was not the great parent, that Hour Dude jr. thinks his dad is. I will comment on that parenting theme in a moment.
Which brings up another point: it is POLITICS, Ladies and Gerbils. Icicle sr., being the crazed Bond villain madman and fascist, Zorn expy, from “View to a Kill” that he is, feels he has to have Braindead sr., broadcast his version of his ‘Mein Kampf’.
What is it?
Universal Health Care.
Global Warming Amelioration
Civil Rights guarantees for everybody based on non-discrimination of gender preference, national origin, skin color or citizen status.
And fair housing and work for everybody who wants it…
… whether they want it or not, and he will kill them or reprogram them to make it happen.
You know the spiel. One issue agenda politics for special interest groups gathered under the rubic of “leftism” (read totalitarianism) masquerading as “progressivism”.
Hour Dude Jr. even comments; “If this is what they want, are they the ‘bad guys’?”
I will only say, that historically fascists and other totalitarians couched their social agendas in “social justice” language that hid their real agenda to seize power and simply tell people what to do to meet their underlying evil ideological goals of anti-individualism, even if they had to mass murder in the process to do it. Or in other words, they were on a power-trip to feed their egomania and their sense of pseudo-intellectual superiority. (Noam Chomsky vs. Richard Feynmann.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harvest_of_Sorrow#:~:text=The%20Harvest%20of%20Sorrow%3A%20Soviet%20Collectivization%20and%20the,the%20Institute%2C%20started%20doing%20research%20for%20the%20book.
If one wants my view on what Johns is saying in this episode, he is asserting that the ISA are indeed more horrific than they superficially appear to be, because those monsters “murder their own children” and family loved ones; in the name of their ideological purity, and selfish egotism, as Stalin and Hitler ACTUALLY DID.
Recap this in the series so far.
Braindead jr. dies at the hands of Braindead sr., because jr. rejects his dad’s ideology of people are evil and must be forced to “do good”.
The kicker is that Braindead sr. does not even believe this spiel, but is a fellow traveller to Icicle sr.; as a remora is to a shark, since it is fundamentally selfish emotional egotism that drives this villain train.
Icicle kills Wizard jr. to teach Wizard sr. a lesson, and kills Wizard sr. when he seeks a Parent’s revenge.
Shiv is Doctor Ito’s “Weapon X” experiment gone wrong. This episode, Braindead sr. even tells Cindy Burman that she is nothing more than a failed Gerbil experiment and her dad, who created her as a mere weapon, so regards her. Shiv is too delusional to clue in, but wait for it Gerbils…
How do Grandad and Grandma Icicle Nazi treat their son Icicle sr.? See the theme? Ideological Purity Uber Familis.
Sports Dude and Tigger are certainly another case example of abusive self centered egotistical parents. Look at how and what they do to their daughter, Artemis Crock to fulfill their own needs before their daughters needs. No less than another monster, Anaya Bowin, points this out to them, calling them unfit parents, as well as incompetent villains after Sports Dude and Tigger fail to dispatch the Dugan-Whitmores. It is not being called incompetent villains, that cause Tigress and Sportsmaster to kill Virtuosa. It is being made to face their incompetence as parents and being told that they hate their daughter that causes them to murder their fellow ISA member, Virtuosa.
Not that Virtuosa is too swift at parenting skills herself as she tells her son, Isaac, that the way to handle bullies, is to be like his dad, that is put a fiddle bow through their skulls.
Contrast that to the way the Dugan-Whitmores, Barbara and Pat, take in and care for:
–Yolanda Montez, rejected by her family for one error in judgement.
–Beth Chapel, ignored and not mentored by her own parents.
–Rick Tyler; troubled orphan
–Janitor Justin; burned out super-hero and mentally-addled janitor with amnesia.
And how they actively parent and mentor Courtney and Mike. So much so is this shown this episode, that when Sportsmaster beats the crap out of Pat Dugan, it is Mike, who has been “neglected” but despite such is still so nurtured and loved on and so happily crazed; so that his first instinct is to put a drill bit through Sportsmaster and when that schlub takes his eye off Pat to murder Mike, Pat gives him the Mister Goodwrench upside the head. Parent fighting for his child. Son fighting for his father. Out of love.
Genuine love, not the diseased version that Shiv showed for Doctor Ito, for father and son have a 2-way bond.
This is what Geoff Johns preaches and promotes and teaches when he writes comics and when he does super-heroes versus super-villains. It is love versus ideology; empathy for good and for others, instead of hate that embraces evil and the egotistical self as the default.
And of course, with the knockoff Cerebro and a demented villain with this hate thing going on: who intends to infect Middle America with Fascism R’Us, and change 100 million minds to hate like his does, it sure comes across that 25% of the target audience will NEVER turn to the dark side and will die.
Do the math. How many people did Stalin murder again? Including his own NIECE?
THAT is how to tell a story and social message, while doing it.
Rate the episode: 50/50/50 out of 5/5/5
Monty
Still got a block.
Monty
Montefescu on August 16, 2020 at 5:33 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Aaron on August 16, 2020 at 12:41 am
“It was TOTALLY Cerebro! 🙂 Them killing Bowan felt random and pointless; I knew the moment she said Tigress was a bad mom they would kill her but it’s like why when the ISA is so limited in personnel as it is?! My thing is just what happened with the body?”
You may be asking me to crawl inside Geoff Johns mind to explain why Anaya Bowan was murdered.
I have a theory as to why I would write her demise that way, but I’m not sure it matches Johns’ reasoning. It goes like this:
–Each ISA villain has been shown to be a selfish egotistical parent who operates on a hate matrix instead of a love matrix.
–Each ISA villain’s child has shown to be the mere instrument of the ISA villain parent’s ambition or ideological goals instead of being loved for the individual unique human being that child grows into as an adult.
–The interactions between ISA villain parent and child is a distaff version of what good parenting and familial love should be.
–ISA parents do not like being called out as unfit parents any more than any other parents, only as they take it very personally when they are called on it, they kill coaches, fellow ISA villain parents, and their own kids, when they get called out.
Now as to the diseased matrix characteristrics:
–Ito and Shiv. Mad scientist and Lab-rat daughter? It sure looks like Cindy went cuckoo for cocoa puffs very young and Doc Ito never forgave her for “accidently” killing mom, when the experiment happened. He keeps throwing that in Cindy’s face. Notice that Cindy is utterly clueless as to how to win friends and influence people the right way? Also, if she “loves” her father, it is like Stockholm Syndrome kid would act.
–Wizard and Wizard jr. Maybe this is the closest an ISA parent actually comes to loving his kid. It does not end well.
–Braindead sr. and Braindead jr. It is the father demands son be an evil chip off the old evil block model and when the son refuses to enter the criminal family business, well daddy-o cuts him off literally.
–Icicle sr. and Icicle jr. Most twisted father-son and extended family relationship possible. Jordan hides who he is from his son. It will be interesting to see how Icicle jr. develops now under the tutelage of Grandpa and Grandma Nazi. Did one forget those two? I did not and neither has Johns.
–Virtuosa and her son. This one is weird. Virtuosa seems to fall into that category of parent who drives her child into artistic endeavor (a Tuba?) but allows her child to choose his own “evil” path with helpful evil suggestions along the way. Fiddler II is in the works, but I still cannot get over that Tuba. Not even a proper Sousaphone? How Mergatroid can one get?
–Sports Dud and Tigger and Artemis Brock. I am perplexed as to whether these characters are to be counterpoint to The Montez family or to the Dugan-Whitmores. Those whack-job parents sure remind me of Yolanda’s parents inverted in how they mistreat their daughter. Miss Kitty gets the rejection treatment while Artemis is smothered in “super-parenting”. Cue the baseball bat and another coach under the north goal-posts.
————————————————
–Is Anaya Bowan alive or zombified into a Dr. Ito drone? Comic books. Cue the Lazarus pit and Fiddler II bringing mom back from the dead.
–Sports Dude and Tigger are in jail. Maybe Artemis breaks them out, or maybe the Whitman-Dugans take in another orphan?
–Icicle jr. is being project Nazied by his grandparents.
–Cindy is playing games with Eclipso. That will end well… not.
–Pat remarked that Doc Ito cannot be killed. Maybe Cindy will have dear old Dad dug up for some reason?
Anyway… pick your own poison plot and prepare for Season 2.
———————-
In case you haven’t seen it yet, here’s a rough line up for Fandome – https://tvline.com/lists/dc-fandome-schedule-tv-panels-flash-batwoman-stargirl/ .
“Supergirl” is basically non existent. 🙁 I get Melissa won’t be there but Nicole and David are and wasn’t Jesse suppose to be there also? If we’re really suppose to start filming again in September why wouldn’t they take this time to hype up some new season stuff? If they bumped Kara to promote Clark more I am going to be p**sed! ?”
Season 5 was an absolute shambles. They may be still be picking up the pieces.
“Even “Stargirl” which just started and only recently announced it would get a season two has a panel listed! “Flash” which goes back later than us to film has a panel. You’ve got a whole persons of color panel going headed by Candice but Azie isn’t on that, what’s up there; “Black Lightening” has two of their cast members attending! I don’t know who’s considered part of Latinx and who’s not, but if Cubans are then we have someone who can be on that panel as Odette is Cuban in part. It feels like every show that DC has on currently is being represented in some form except “Supergirl” and that’s not cool!”
I know and now I am worried.
“I know season five sucked but all the more reason to hype up season six and what you have planned for it; unless that’s part of the problem, they don’t know yet what’s going to be the main arc of season six even though they’ve had months to work on it.”
Season 5 was an absolute shambles. They may be still be picking up the pieces.
“Much like with “Batwoman” when they announced the reboot instead of recast I am more so feeling dread right now that excitement. 🙁 Hopefully they’ll come up with something to add but right now there’s a very glaring hole in their line up and on their panels in general when it comes to “Supergirl”. I know David’s and Nicole’s panel is one of the longest as far as time but still it’s not like it’s just them on that panel; this is just very frustrating, looks like you’ll be recapping the DC universe more than “Supergirl” next week John and Justina.”
Sheesh; when the draw is Maines and Harewood, that has got to be frustrating, but at least 2 of the better actors represent. Jesse Rath can go to Manitoba and fish for all I care about him, now.
“Could someone clue me in on which episode I need to re-watch next? it is hard tp predict I am looking at either: “Human for a Day” or “Red Faced” if we are going by good and/or chronological order.
==========================================
I do wish more people were there besides just Nicole and David, I get Melissa not being there because she’s having a baby but they do have their second lead still in play with Chyler so why not push her in panels unless she had time off scheduled before this announcement and she’s taking it and they want to keep her happy as well being the second lead; still there’s Azie as supposedly Kelly was going to be big in season 5 (she was there she sadly just didn’t do anything) and Jesse. Katie isn’t big on social media so I get her not attending the event. All that said Nicole and David certainly aren’t a bad team to have to represent us at this event, it again you have them so it’s like why aren’t they doing a “Supergirl” panel also?
You can even make it a short one to avoid talking so much about season 5, the shortest listed time for a topic is 15 minutes – they can fill that just talking about behind the seasons stories! Or just have them answer fan questions that you pick out before hand because we know all corporate events always do just softball questions for the celebrities because they want to look good. Was every “Supergirl” fan question submitted too hard to answer that you can’t ask any of them?!
Or just have them talk about what they would like to see in season six since they probably don’t know what’s even going to happen as they may not have the first script yet, that will definitely do 15 minutes and be something the fans can get behind!
Look it’s easy…
“Supergirl: On The Beat”
Join Nicole Maines (Nia Nal aka Dreamer) and David Harewood (J’onn J’onzz aka Martian Manhunter) as they discuss season 5, their excitement at returning to film, and answer fan submitted questions. (30 minutes)
DONE! Have it DC, the concept is totally free! I’ll even say you can throw a moderator into this panel to eat up more of that time because we know they can be filler for some.
We know season five was bad but we’ll be good fans and listen to the dog and pony show about how it was such a big deal pulling Leviathan from the comics and how Crisis has made things so much more different for them now and whatever time you want to kill for 15 minutes talking about it because maybe Nicole and David will say something interesting about the process and then we get to them talk about season six and maybe that will hype us up for things more after the season we went through and we know you’ll kill as much time as you can on things we don’t care about and only answer softball questions at the end for what will be like 5 minutes probably instead of 10, because you know you have enough questions to do that with the answer times they may give, so only 3 questions get asked but at least we’ll have a panel and right now that would be something because why are we the only show who doesn’t have one right now?!
Yes we have cast representation there but our show is the only one without a show panel and that’s not cool!
Maybe because the event is virtual they’ll add one later but right now going by the schedule there’s no reason for “Supergirl” fans to watch this event arguably and that just adds to the sadness that has been this season.
I’m just saying this now, if they write off “Supergirl” to push Superman I’ll watch “Stargirl” clips online because I am not watching the CW superhero line up with that treatment! Especially if Legends is renewed again; sorry Legends fans out there I hate to be mean to them like this but the facts are even with our disastrous season 5 and questionable season 4 we still have better ratings than them so how do they get to return but we don’t? They can’t say budget because there’s like 40 people in that case and 90% of the characters have some special effect to them so it can’t be that much less than our flying CGI costs.
I’m just very frustrated by this because how hard is it to throw together a 15 minute panel with David and Nicole who are already going to be on another panel for the event?! Especially one where you rave about how much of a big deal season 5 was even if no fans buy that! Make it a giant fluff piece at this point just have the panel to show you remember “Supergirl” is part of this world too especially since we now know you’re supposedly filming again in a month which as Leslie said is before even “Flash” goes back and FLASH probably has the most representation at this thing!
Aaron on August 17, 2020 at 8:02 am
“I do wish more people were there besides just Nicole and David, I get Melissa not being there because she’s having a baby but they do have their second lead still in play with Chyler so why not push her in panels unless she had time off scheduled before this announcement and she’s taking it and they want to keep her happy as well being the second lead; still there’s Azie as supposedly Kelly was going to be big in season 5 (she was there she sadly just didn’t do anything) and Jesse. Katie isn’t big on social media so I get her not attending the event. All that said Nicole and David certainly aren’t a bad team to have to represent us at this event, it again you have them so it’s like why aren’t they doing a “Supergirl” panel also?”
I don’t know. On the FANDOME front, I can give you this…
https://youtu.be/sNyYuqRTPh4
and as to the EC and WB massacres, I can give this…
https://youtu.be/Ivlfvz-tukc
She gives good inmformation without the “troll content” that other commentators push.
“”You can even make it a short one to avoid talking so much about season 5, the shortest listed time for a topic is 15 minutes – they can fill that just talking about behind the seasons stories! Or just have them answer fan questions that you pick out before hand because we know all corporate events always do just softball questions for the celebrities because they want to look good. Was every “Supergirl” fan question submitted too hard to answer that you can’t ask any of them?!”
The short answer, Aaron, is that this event has already been video prepped and edited, so it is too late to go and fix what is already on disc and screwed up.
“Or just have them talk about what they would like to see in season six since they probably don’t know what’s even going to happen as they may not have the first script yet, that will definitely do 15 minutes and be something the fans can get behind!”
You will see the pre-massacre version of the PR spin. it is not going to conform to reality insofar as it exists now.
“Look it’s easy…”
Ah maybe 3 months ago?
““Supergirl: On The Beat”
Join Nicole Maines (Nia Nal aka Dreamer) and David Harewood (J’onn J’onzz aka Martian Manhunter) as they discuss season 5, their excitement at returning to film, and answer fan submitted questions. (30 minutes)”
“Can you answer any questions about seaon 5 of Supergirl?”
“it was a wonderful experience and we learned so much we will take into Season 6!”
Translation: Season 5 was a disaster and nobody has any idea on how they are supposed to fix it. Plus, nobody tells us anything and even if they had a clue as to how to fix it, or someone did, it probably would not get past Derek Simon.
“DONE! Have it DC, the concept is totally free! I’ll even say you can throw a moderator into this panel to eat up more of that time because we know they can be filler for some.”
See previous comment and with a lot of people nervous about their futures, “Don’t rock the boat.” is the order of the day.
“We know season five was bad but we’ll be good fans and listen to the dog and pony show about how it was such a big deal pulling Leviathan from the comics and how Crisis has made things so much more different for them now and whatever time you want to kill for 15 minutes talking about it because maybe Nicole and David will say something interesting about the process and then we get to them talk about season six and maybe that will hype us up for things more after the season we went through and we know you’ll kill as much time as you can on things we don’t care about and only answer softball questions at the end for what will be like 5 minutes probably instead of 10, because you know you have enough questions to do that with the answer times they may give, so only 3 questions get asked but at least we’ll have a panel and right now that would be something because why are we the only show who doesn’t have one right now?!”
Uhm… Do you know the first rule about nonperformance in a corporate bloodbath after the accountants break out the sharp pencils? Do not be the TALL NAIL.
“Yes we have cast representation there but our show is the only one without a show panel and that’s not cool!”
Tall nail.
“Maybe because the event is virtual they’ll add one later but right now going by the schedule there’s no reason for “Supergirl” fans to watch this event arguably and that just adds to the sadness that has been this season.”
In the disc and they will not take the risk.
“I’m just saying this now, if they write off “Supergirl” to push Superman I’ll watch “Stargirl” clips online because I am not watching the CW superhero line up with that treatment! Especially if Legends is renewed again; sorry Legends fans out there I hate to be mean to them like this but the facts are even with our disastrous season 5 and questionable season 4 we still have better ratings than them so how do they get to return but we don’t? They can’t say budget because there’s like 40 people in that case and 90% of the characters have some special effect to them so it can’t be that much less than our flying CGI costs.”
I hate to point out that there are WB execs who LIKE Legends.
“I’m just very frustrated by this because how hard is it to throw together a 15 minute panel with David and Nicole who are already going to be on another panel for the event?! Especially one where you rave about how much of a big deal season 5 was even if no fans buy that! Make it a giant fluff piece at this point just have the panel to show you remember “Supergirl” is part of this world too especially since we now know you’re supposedly filming again in a month which as Leslie said is before even “Flash” goes back and FLASH probably has the most representation at this thing!
If you look at the performance metrics… Flash is doing better by the objectives of revenue stream, market demographic and name retention and advertising and purchase dollars.
It is called show BUSINESS; not show AUDIENCE.”
I can see the episode review for part one now too Monty for the “Stargirl” finale! 🙂
Legends could be a really good and fun show with the time travel element to it but they’re more so leaning to adventures during time rather than adventures in time if that makes sense. And they rarely if every try to actually explore what happens when you mess with time, sure they’ve done stories where someone wants to take something or they want to change an event but not since Snark wanting to save his sister no matter the cost have they really gone there and explored consequences of that or had a crew vote of what if this one time they look the other way because the sister is innocent. I know recently they tried to bring this back with Constantine’s boyfriend but it was so late in the season when things started hearing up it was over before too long. I know Legends is the “fun, goofy” show and I don’t fault them for that but at the same time if you’re going to base you’re series around time travel actually explore the concept of time travel! Season one annoyed me so much with this and how they kept fighting Savage at his most powerful until near season’s end when they should have always attacked when he first got his powers or before even! I know they had to fill 13 episodes at the time but those plans just made the Legends look dumb, you never fight someone at full power when you can fight them when they have less! Also Legends seems to take pride in doing the opposite of anything I want to see because they disrespect Nyssa’s effect on Sara at every turn I feel and they pair up people like Nate and Zari who have never liked each other until they were made too because the show needed a couple it seems even though all the fans were like Charlie/Zari instead; so yeah I like certain characters from Legends but I don’t like the show itself as they’ve given me no reason each week to want to watch and I know it has some of the lowest ratings for the superhero group’s consistently so if they got renewed but we didn’t I would be extremely furious as I would also be raging over the fact they went Clark instead of Kara.
Yeah I know FLASH is the top superhero show for the CW so it makes sense they would have the most credit but still every show has a panel except one so I’m like “What is up?!”; no David and Nicole being there doesn’t erase this fact, it’s cool they have a side panel to do talking about a larger topic but still why is “Supergirl” the only show without a panel at this thing? You’re filming which means there’s at least one script out there so you have something to talk about…it just feels as John always says like we’re being disrespected and I don’t know why. Yes we hated season five but that’s our job as the audience – to tell you what’s selling to us and what isn’t and to help you’re product stay on longer so you can make more; why is it a bad thing we want quality back when we know the show can be good? And you know they’ll try and come up with some lame excuse for why we didn’t get a panel (Melissa isn’t there – even though you can do a panel without the title character when we all know she’s going to have a baby, there wasn’t enough time – even though every other show has a show panel, David and Nicole were busy – even though other shows have actors at both a show and side panel, or something like they wanted to talk about something besides season 5 since we say we hated it but you know there’s a thing called season 6 or just talking about the series on a general level) which just makes it again frustrating.
Aaron on August 18, 2020 at 8:13 am
“I can see the episode review for part one now too Monty for the “Stargirl” finale! :)”
“Squeak. Squeak.” said the little mouse and the cat answered. Seriously, until I figure the block out, I am going to have problems with “Shining Knight”.
“Legends could be a really good and fun show with the time travel element to it but they’re more so leaning to adventures during time rather than adventures in time if that makes sense. And they rarely if every try to actually explore what happens when you mess with time, sure they’ve done stories where someone wants to take something or they want to change an event but not since Snark wanting to save his sister no matter the cost have they really gone there and explored consequences of that or had a crew vote of what if this one time they look the other way because the sister is innocent. I know recently they tried to bring this back with Constantine’s boyfriend but it was so late in the season when things started hearing up it was over before too long. I know Legends is the “fun, goofy” show and I don’t fault them for that but at the same time if you’re going to base you’re series around time travel actually explore the concept of time travel! Season one annoyed me so much with this and how they kept fighting Savage at his most powerful until near season’s end when they should have always attacked when he first got his powers or before even! I know they had to fill 13 episodes at the time but those plans just made the Legends look dumb, you never fight someone at full power when you can fight them when they have less! Also Legends seems to take pride in doing the opposite of anything I want to see because they disrespect Nyssa’s effect on Sara at every turn I feel and they pair up people like Nate and Zari who have never liked each other until they were made too because the show needed a couple it seems even though all the fans were like Charlie/Zari instead; so yeah I like certain characters from Legends but I don’t like the show itself as they’ve given me no reason each week to want to watch and I know it has some of the lowest ratings for the superhero group’s consistently so if they got renewed but we didn’t I would be extremely furious as I would also be raging over the fact they went Clark instead of Kara.”
First of all I hate time travel fiction, more than I hate magic. The reason I hate both concepts is that if it is done “right” (L Sprague de Camp and C. J. Cheryh or Leah Brackett) it is enormously difficult to follow and understand the author’s constraining rules of unique fiction-created organizational logics without a compendium of your own notes or some other reader’s grunt-work to understand the behind the scenes work seen to make the fiction work inside that created universe. If you need an example of what I mean, look at what I’ve done with “Stargirl” and that is just a “superficial treatment” of a simple “magic” based show.
With “Legends” you can either get George R.R, Martin with rules and details or you can get H.G Wells (stupid). Marc Guggenheim chose “stupid” because it is a lot simpler to write and blow past the audience with yuks and chucks and messaging than to present a reasoned “story”.
It is probably why you do not like “Legends.” I need comedy and dumb occasionally because I am a Three Stooges kind of Bugs Bunny kind of guy who is easily sent into ROTFLMAO; when someone walks into a plate glass window or skids across a wet floor when the “Cuidado resbaladizo cuando está mojado” work sign is up and I see the janitor mopping the floor.
“Yeah I know FLASH is the top superhero show for the CW so it makes sense they would have the most credit but still every show has a panel except one so I’m like “What is up?!”; no David and Nicole being there doesn’t erase this fact, it’s cool they have a side panel to do talking about a larger topic but still why is “Supergirl” the only show without a panel at this thing? You’re filming which means there’s at least one script out there so you have something to talk about…it just feels as John always says like we’re being disrespected and I don’t know why. Yes we hated season five but that’s our job as the audience – to tell you what’s selling to us and what isn’t and to help you’re product stay on longer so you can make more; why is it a bad thing we want quality back when we know the show can be good? And you know they’ll try and come up with some lame excuse for why we didn’t get a panel (Melissa isn’t there – even though you can do a panel without the title character when we all know she’s going to have a baby, there wasn’t enough time – even though every other show has a show panel, David and Nicole were busy – even though other shows have actors at both a show and side panel, or something like they wanted to talk about something besides season 5 since we say we hated it but you know there’s a thing called season 6 or just talking about the series on a general level) which just makes it again frustrating.”
Derek Simon, I blame him. Actually it is not just his fault, since he has a lot of enablers and fellow travelers, but I agree it is frustrating that some shows plan well. write well, PR well and sell themselves well, while others are less able or not given as much love or opportunity.
It is, what it is, Aaron. At least we are not “Batwoman”. That show is a dumpster fire. Nor are we the Zack Snyder cut of “Fatman vs. Superdumb; Dawn of Awful” “Supergirl” is really not that bad off. It has a season 6.
Monty
P.S. I am going to try to put up “Redfaced” if i can find my notes or i may rewatch and do a new review. I will also try “Shining Knight” at some point in the feedback. (Fifth time is the charm?”
Supergirl (TV Series):”Red Faced” (2015)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Jesse Warn
Writing Credits
Otto Binder … (based on characters created by) and
Al Plastino … (based on characters created by)
Greg Berlanti … (developed by) &
Ali Adler … (developed by) &
Andrew Kreisberg … (developed by)
Michael Grassi … (written by) &
Rachel Shukert … (written by)
Caitlin Parrish … (executive story editor)
Derek Simon … (incompetent staff writer) (uncredited)
Cast (in credits order)
Melissa Benoist … Kara Danvers / Supergirl
Mehcad Brooks … James Olsen
Chyler Leigh … Alex Danvers
Jeremy Jordan … Winn Schott
David Harewood … Hank Henshaw
Calista Flockhart … Cat Grant
Peter Facinelli … Maxwell Lord
Jenna Dewan … Lucy Lane (as Jenna Dewan Tatum)
Glenn Morshower … General Sam Lane
Iddo Goldberg … Red Tornado / T. O. Morrow
Luke Macfarlane … Agent Donovan
Joan Juliet Buck … Katherine Grant
Briana Venskus … Agent Vasquez
Joe Bucaro III … Convertible Driver
Thom Williams … Suburu Driver
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Nancy Barcellona … Catco Employee (uncredited)
Laura Kranz Galvan … Scared Pedestrian (uncredited)
Maria Elena Heredia … Catco Employee (uncredited)
Punnavith Koy … Street Pedestrian (uncredited)
Review: Henry Jeeran edited this episode. OUTSTANDING work he did: the intercuts of the fight between Kara and Red Tornado and the fight between Alex and T.O. Morrow at the climax was a superb exercise in visual storytelling and parallelism; the finest I’ve ever seen. Jesse Warn directed it. Good directing he did: if paced at fast warp speed because he had a lot of distance in this episode and themes and story to cover in a mere 43 minutes.
Michael Grassi and Rachel Shukert turned in a literate “Star Trek, The Old Seris like” script, that use connected vignette scenes that relies on audience feedback loops to fill in almost 60% of the story background they imply in their highly condensed shorthand. They are LITERATE!
The stunt-work and practicals are incredible. The FX overall, while generally TV quality (including CGI), are just good enough to add to the story-telling instead of detract from it. Even the goofy-looking suit that Iddo Goldberg wore, when he played the android, was excellent in design in that it allowed Iddo to play his humanity inside that puppet costume.
Themes:
1. Anger management; not anger suppression. THIS is the episode when I knew that David Harewood was the Martian Manhunter and Big Daddy Martian. He mentors Kara right off the incident with the two idiots in the Lexus and Subaru playing bumper cars and about to crash into the school bus. If one has read the classic Manhunter, his anger comes from his perceived moral “cowardice” and failure to protect his family during the Martian civil war. It is self-loathing in his case. But we will learn that in this series sense as far as this episode, it is loss of home, family, identity, isolation and the “Stranger in a Strange Land” syndrome (Robert Heinlein) that he recognizes and shares with Kara. This is the audience feedback loop I mentioned earlier.
2. Anger management as manipulation. Whether it is Sam Lane or Cat Grant’s mother, there are archetypes of people, who cruise blissfully through life as button-pushers; people who seem to read other people and know exactly what to say and do to render their targets impotent with rage or befuddled with anger; because they, the befuddled, know that if they give way that they will do something they regret. The button pushers are most happy when they can take up residence rent free in other people’s minds.
3. HOWEVER… Sam Lane, for all that he is a self-righteous, smug person, this episode, sets aside his own anger at Jimmy and the button-pushing manipulation long enough to deliver a candid DEVASTATING and accurate character read on one Mister James Olsen to aforesaid character as characterized in DC comics and in this series up to and through season three. James Olsen is a human remora hanging around the sharks, sucking his sustenance off his friends and loves. Kind of bitter to write it that way, but Grassi and Shukert are faithful to the source material.
4. Anger at self-failure; for no good reason. Pick a loser. Alex is moping because she thinks she has failed Kara. Kara is moping because she thinks she has failed at making a normal life for herself. Jimmy is moping because he realizes that Same Lane told him the truth. BDM is moping because he thinks he has flunked the hero test. Cat is moping because she thinks she has flunked the parent approval test. The self-assured button pushers, Sam Lane and Katherine Grant and to a lesser extent, Lucy Lane, do not have the self-loathing problem, because they are happily oblivious to the self-correction, self-analysis, look yourself in the mirror after you have just screwed up normalcy that the rest of us, characters in the story and in real life, have to do.
5. Anger as monomaniacal psychosis. T.O. Morrow and his sock puppet exhibit this theme. Invest in a love too deeply and then see it criticized or threatened and then one can see anger is the bridge between the two emotional states. Sane human beings know when to let go and thus ease the pain and suffering they inflict on themselves and others when they experience this anger. How is it going, Doc? Got a bad case of Frankenstein and Monster; there? Notice it is Maxwell Lord, that cold calculating fish, who tells the other sharks, “Here is your problem, kill it.”
6. Anger in the mirror. Refer to 4.. Cat drinks herself stupid at the bar, and she mentors Kara about this self-analysis part of being human. You know it is normal for us, gerbils, to be depressed and to be angry? We try to delude ourselves that we “should” be happy and at peace 100% of the time, but look at us. The big unanswered question at the heart of human anger is “WHY?” Not “To be or not to be?” as Shakespeare would have us believe. Kara punches the question out on a Toyota as James wimps out on the punching bag, as they both “look in the mirror and ask themselves… “WHY?”
Why are we miserable?
Why did we screw up?
Why did this awful thing happen?
Why are we jealous?”
Why do we hurt?
Why did we hurt the one(s) we love?
Why did we lose our tempers?
Why does nothing make any sense?
Or an infinite number of variations, but “WHY?” is the heart of human anger.
That is NORMAL.
Supergirl sees her parents and her planet blow up in her mind’s eye as a visual metaphor and she has to do something with that pain and that anger. She sends it into Red Tornado and MURDERS another life for the first time. This is after Alex tells her Red Tornado is SENTIENT. It is alive and aware for T.O. Morrow uploaded himself as Alex killed him.
I only wish we had seen a similar visual metaphor for Alex, as Kara experiences, as she commits her own first murder. T.O. Morrow warned her, that she would have to kill him to stop him, remember? So, all we can do is infer from Chyler Leigh’s acting, that in addition to the anger she, she, as the Alex character, is supposed to feel at T.O. Morrow for trying to kill her, and her sister, she may have thought about who murdered her own father and why. And maybe there is a connection?
By the way, what happened to Kara when she purged her anger and her pain? She became human and vulnerable. She cut her finger after she dropped a glass, especially after Cat Grant told her to be careful. How is that for a character growth coda? Yikes. Good writing to the very finish.
You can see now why I think this is the finest Supergirl episode ever made?
50/50/50 out of 5/5/5 for acting, writing and directing.
Monty
Stargirl (TV Series) “Shining Knight” (2020)
Directed by Jennifer Phang who did a bang up job.
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Geoff Johns … (written by) WHAM episode.
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hourman
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Geoff Stults … Sam Kurtis / Con-daddy-agogo
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / The Shining Knight
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin / The Fiddler (Virtuosa) (as Hina Khan)
Ashley Winfrey … Jenny Williams
Jasun Jabbar Wardlaw Jr. … Brian Tanner Balloid (as Jasun Jabbar)
https://stargirl.fandom.com/wiki/Brian_Tanner_Balloid#:~:text=Brian%20Tanner%20Balloid%20is%20a%20character%20in%20The,friends%20with%20Henry%20King%20Jr.%20and%20Travis%20Thomas.
Bill Southworth Bill Southworth … Farmer Frank
Maria Sager … Maria
Suehyla El-Attar … Mrs. Patterson
Brandon Reece … Pedestrian #1
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Shawn Weston Thacker … Student (uncredited)
Review: It is hard to make sense of this Bridger episode. The Title says “Shining Knight” and the lesson is that heroes come from anywhere; but they have to believe in their heroism. So this episode is not so much about Justin who pursued the Dragon King to Blue Valley and was taken by the ISA and in ironic cruelty; suffered death of personality at the hands of Braindead Sr. and Doctor Ito.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfPersonality#:~:text=Death%20of%20Personality.%20This%20trope%20covers%20situations%20when,Loss%20of%20Identity%20or%20damage%20to%20the%20soul%29.
An example is Babylon 5 “Journey to Gethsemane”; a horribly cruel but spectacular episode in a series full of them, which is a good comparator as a morality tale to this episode of Stargirl. I highly recommend the comparison of both episodes to each other.
===========================================================
Courtney is the shining knight. But she has hurdles in her reach to the next level of her responsibility and her power. She has to have her illusions about herself shattered. She has to deal with her guilt (and it is a genuine guilt, for though she did not murder Braindead Jr. and Joey (Wizard Jr); she has to recognize that her heroics were causal factors that prompted the villains to kill.
Then she has to have her mythology about her delusional origin story wiped out and erased. Sam Kurtis is half of Courtney’s DNA. Who is Sam Kurtis? Dad. Apparently Sam came by to grift (a term meaning to con family members out of money or valuables, usually to finance some criminal activity contemplated by the grafter.) Long story short, Courtney gives up her locket and her “memories” of her supposed dad. This shatters her and she loses faith. The staff will not work for her.
I suppose at some point, she would have to come to terms with her “self” and figure out that it is she who the staff loves and serves, not some imagined genetic or noble blood descended legacy. But this is a 42 minute episode and the struggle to reconcile self with belief in self has to be hurried along. Janitor Justin is therefore part of this story as a shorthand storyteller of another hero who went through what Courtney traverses now. He is both triumph and tragedy, as the example, because though he is The Shining Knight and his valor at one crucial desperate time saved the world as the leader of The Seven Soldiers of Victory and he is the legacy of King Arthur, HE is what happens to good men who rise to the call, and then are spent in the service of Good. I would call that the same exact fate John Philip Sheridan of Babylon 5 suffers, and I do mean the word “suffer”.
Sorry, Geoff Johns, like J. Michael Stracynski, can bring tears to my eyes as balladeers who sing great tales. Cause I KNOW this story. I’ve seen it in real life, not just fiction. And I see people who have asked me WHY it is so. And all I can tell them, is it is the price of admiralty…
The Song Of The Dead
Hear now the Song of the Dead — in the North by the torn berg-edges —
They that look still to the Pole, asleep by their hide-stripped sledges.
Song of the Dead in the South — in the sun by their skeleton horses,
Where the warrigal whimpers and bays through the dust
of the sear river-courses.
Song of the Dead in the East — in the heat-rotted jungle hollows,
Where the dog-ape barks in the kloof —
in the brake of the buffalo-wallows.
Song of the Dead in the West —
in the Barrens, the waste that betrayed them,
Where the wolverene tumbles their packs
from the camp and the grave-mound they made them;
Hear now the Song of the Dead!
I
We were dreamers, dreaming greatly, in the man-stifled town;
We yearned beyond the sky-line where the strange roads go down.
Came the Whisper, came the Vision, came the Power with the Need,
Till the Soul that is not man’s soul was lent us to lead.
As the deer breaks — as the steer breaks — from the herd where they graze,
In the faith of little children we went on our ways.
Then the wood failed — then the food failed — then the last water dried —
In the faith of little children we lay down and died.
On the sand-drift — on the veldt-side — in the fern-scrub we lay,
That our sons might follow after by the bones on the way.
Follow after — follow after! We have watered the root,
And the bud has come to blossom that ripens for fruit!
Follow after — we are waiting, by the trails that we lost,
For the sounds of many footsteps, for the tread of a host.
Follow after — follow after — for the harvest is sown:
By the bones about the wayside ye shall come to your own!
When Drake went down to the Horn
And England was crowned thereby,
‘Twixt seas unsailed and shores unhailed
Our Lodge — our Lodge was born
(And England was crowned thereby!)
Which never shall close again
By day nor yet by night,
While man shall take his life to stake
At risk of shoal or main
(By day nor yet by night).
But standeth even so
As now we witness here,
While men depart, of joyful heart,
Adventure for to know
(As now bear witness here!)
II
We have fed our sea for a thousand years
And she calls us, still unfed,
Though there’s never a wave of all her waves
But marks our English dead:
We have strawed our best to the weed’s unrest,
To the shark and the sheering gull.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ paid in full!
There’s never a flood goes shoreward now
But lifts a keel we manned;
There’s never an ebb goes seaward now
But drops our dead on the sand —
But slinks our dead on the sands forlore,
From the Ducies to the Swin.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ paid it in!
We must feed our sea for a thousand years,
For that is our doom and pride,
As it was when they sailed with the ~Golden Hind~,
Or the wreck that struck last tide —
Or the wreck that lies on the spouting reef
Where the ghastly blue-lights flare.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ bought it fair!
You pay for the good with blood, children who would be heroes. You pay with blood.
As for the villains, well, Braindead Sr. and Icicle make their villain growls at each other and BDS pushes Icicle to find out the “truth” about Barbara Whitmore and Courtney. Sorry Icicle Jr.; Dad has changed his mind about your puppy love. Icicle now intends that Braindead Sr. is to kill the Whitmore/Dugans, down to the dog.
“Can’t leave a legacy.”
I suspect that it is far too late for that; Mr. Frosty, cause Courtney CHOSE her parents, chose her origin, chose her belief and finally accepted the grim price the staff offered her.
“Our Queen has risen.”
Great episode. 50/50/50 out of 5/5/5
Monty
P.S. I went back and watched this one again, and I found I liked it almost as much as I liked “Red Faced” and almost for the same reasons of dramatic and successful overreach of theme and purpose and treatment of the core human condition.
““Supergirl” is really not that bad off. It has a season 6.” – that is true Monty; hopefully it will have seasons after that also!
In regards to your “Shining Knight” review, do you have any links in the post? I find sometimes that can put a response in moderation or sometimes it’s just a line or two you have in it that causes a block. You could try posting an edited version of it where your core ideas stay but maybe some sections are edited? It’s weird what can get you blocked for; also check for punctuation usage as having the exclamation point next to two words and that all smushed together can sometimes effect it. You know your cast lists post fine so I would check the review portion itself and see if maybe editing it some gets it posted because again I’ve had that happened where the change of some paragraphs got it posted versus placed in limbo. I hope that helps!
“the intercuts of the fight between Kara and Red Tornado and the fight between Alex and T.O. Morrow at the climax was a superb exercise in visual storytelling and parallelism” – that was a great portion of the episode! Also that’s Alex’s second kill on TV. Embrace anti-hero Alex writers; yes she fired in self defense but still she shot him and how does that carry into her future encounters? While Alex mainly responses due to self defense she sometimes does go personal – see Astra and how she murdered her for all intense and purposes so yeah she leans more anti-hero than clear hero and that’s not a bad thing! Again I doubt they’ll go there because they don’t want the hero’s sister to be a bad guy (even though anti-hero isn’t a villain) unless she is a clear villain and Alex isn’t; CW doesn’t know how to embrace anti-heroes though sadly so maybe it’s best not label her for them.
The Red Tornado suit was good overall!
Saying Red Tornado is Kara’s first kill is a nice discussion point Monty because being mainly machine some may feel Kara really didn’t kill someone but he was sentient which means she did so her first kill isn’t Parasite but Red Tornado! Again you can argue it’s self defense so she had to kill him or he would have killed her, same with Alex and Morrow, but it was still a kill and if we take the episode at face value then Kara just walked it off if you will and so the question is because of how he looks does Kara see him as different – it’s not like killing a human or alien to her? Did she just not understand what Alex was saying in the moment because she was hyped up on adrenaline? This could play into needing more training for stressful moments as Kara was learning all through season one. Or does she see what she did as completely just because she heard Alex and thus deemed Red Tornado knowing what he was doing and thus he got what was coming to him so she doesn’t relish the kill as others might but she isn’t going to beat herself up over it either? Again if you take it as Kara stopped him because it was the only way to be sure he did stop and that she doesn’t enjoy the kill but she’s not busted up over it because RT made his choice then that gives her a unique take on being a hero especially in the Super roster and again you can do interesting things with that; treating Kara like the individual she is is one of the many great things about season one! 🙂
Morrow is not the first person Alex kills on the series, that’s the Helgrumite (she stabbed him in the heart – unless he has two that dude is dead, stop trying to recant it show); Morrow is the first “without question” kill however because you can’t recant her saying he’s dead and we know he’s human so shooting him that close is definitely going to kill him. They can take back a lot of stuff using alien DNA but they can never take away the fact Alex killed Morrow and Astra because those are clear as day! There’s also the Cadmus agents she kills in season two because you know there’s no way she blows up the warehouse like that and nobody dies.
“Red Faced” is a good episode looking back Monty but I can’t say it’s my favorite. 🙂
I will say I am LOVING this season one rewatch though because oh man this season was basically perfect! Again “Supergirl” season one is the best CW superhero season, one of the best DC seasons animated or live action, and arguably the best superhero premiere season of all superhero shows regardless of companies. They just do so much right with season one and I would love to see them return to that quality!
I absolutely agree on the helgremite. That has to be a different one at the carnival even if it’s the same actor because in season one they definitely want us to think Alex killed him
Look under the “Pilot” Post show feedback in the comments.
Montefescu on August 6, 2020 at 12:02 am
Aaron, I thought I put up one for Shining Kni9ght…
=====================================================
Stargirl (TV Series) “Shining Knight” (2020)
I have since rewatched it after Red Faced and bumped the rating up to 50/50/50 out of 5/5/5 for exactly much the same reasons I loved “Red Faced”. Big issues, big story treatment, and deceptively SUBTLE for how it was all done.
====================================================
Aaron on August 19, 2020 at 6:25 am
““Supergirl” is really not that bad off. It has a season 6.” – that is true Monty; hopefully it will have seasons after that also!”
Best insurance is improved writing and no Derek Simon.
“In regards to your “Shining Knight” review, do you have any links in the post? I find sometimes that can put a response in moderation or sometimes it’s just a line or two you have in it that causes a block. You could try posting an edited version of it where your core ideas stay but maybe some sections are edited? It’s weird what can get you blocked for; also check for punctuation usage as having the exclamation point next to two words and that all smushed together can sometimes effect it. You know your cast lists post fine so I would check the review portion itself and see if maybe editing it some gets it posted because again I’ve had that happened where the change of some paragraphs got it posted versus placed in limbo. I hope that helps!”
See previous comment. The block is off.
““the intercuts of the fight between Kara and Red Tornado and the fight between Alex and T.O. Morrow at the climax was a superb exercise in visual storytelling and parallelism” – that was a great portion of the episode! Also that’s Alex’s second kill on TV. Embrace anti-hero Alex writers; yes she fired in self defense but still she shot him and how does that carry into her future encounters? While Alex mainly responses due to self defense she sometimes does go personal – see Astra and how she murdered her for all intense and purposes so yeah she leans more anti-hero than clear hero and that’s not a bad thing! Again I doubt they’ll go there because they don’t want the hero’s sister to be a bad guy (even though anti-hero isn’t a villain) unless she is a clear villain and Alex isn’t; CW doesn’t know how to embrace anti-heroes though sadly so maybe it’s best not label her for them.”
What was her first kill?
“The Red Tornado suit was good overall!”
https://screenrant.com/supergirl-tv-red-tornado-review-recap/
Some fans still complained that the suit was “goofy”.
“Saying Red Tornado is Kara’s first kill is a nice discussion point Monty because being mainly machine some may feel Kara really didn’t kill someone but he was sentient which means she did so her first kill isn’t Parasite but Red Tornado! Again you can argue it’s self defense so she had to kill him or he would have killed her, same with Alex and Morrow, but it was still a kill and if we take the episode at face value then Kara just walked it off if you will and so the question is because of how he looks does Kara see him as different – it’s not like killing a human or alien to her? Did she just not understand what Alex was saying in the moment because she was hyped up on adrenaline? This could play into needing more training for stressful moments as Kara was learning all through season one. Or does she see what she did as completely just because she heard Alex and thus deemed Red Tornado knowing what he was doing and thus he got what was coming to him so she doesn’t relish the kill as others might but she isn’t going to beat herself up over it either? Again if you take it as Kara stopped him because it was the only way to be sure he did stop and that she doesn’t enjoy the kill but she’s not busted up over it because RT made his choice then that gives her a unique take on being a hero especially in the Super roster and again you can do interesting things with that; treating Kara like the individual she is is one of the many great things about season one! :)”
I’ve been in that situation twice in my life, fortunately without having to be lethal about it. I can tell you as a human being, there is an enormous adrenaline surge you actually “feel”. Mixed with that “rush”; almost a drug high, is a lot of fear and raw rage. There is very little time for rational thought and what thought you do have depends on the “urge t0 act” and what your brain is screaming at your muscles to do. Fight or flight. If you fight, then it is not going to be a calm deliberative process on morality. It will be, depending on your skill, what kind of training you had, and what comes to hand, to the death by any means necessary.
As I wrote, I did not have to kill, but it was close one time, and it still scares me, witless, how close it was before I could break away and use flight instead of fight to avoid that situation.
“Morrow is not the first person Alex kills on the series, that’s the Helgrumite (she stabbed him in the heart – unless he has two that dude is dead, stop trying to recant it show); Morrow is the first “without question” kill however because you can’t recant her saying he’s dead and we know he’s human so shooting him that close is definitely going to kill him. They can take back a lot of stuff using alien DNA but they can never take away the fact Alex killed Morrow and Astra because those are clear as day! There’s also the Cadmus agents she kills in season two because you know there’s no way she blows up the warehouse like that and nobody dies.”
https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Hellgrammite?file=HellgrammiteDeath.png
Insects have a distributed open circulatory system, Aaron. Old Helgramite is not dead.
https://www.quora.com/Do-insects-have-hearts-like-human-beings
“Red Faced” is a good episode looking back Monty but I can’t say it’s my favorite. :)”
In Diversity there is Synthesis.
“I will say I am LOVING this season one rewatch though because oh man this season was basically perfect! Again “Supergirl” season one is the best CW superhero season, one of the best DC seasons animated or live action, and arguably the best superhero premiere season of all superhero shows regardless of companies. They just do so much right with season one and I would love to see them return to that quality!”
Well, if you give me 20 out of 23 good episodes, I am going to like the season as well. Just do not try to convince me that “Livewire” was one of them.
I will be looking at “Human For a Day” next.
“Shining Knight” is a good episode for all the character stuff in it; I will say the title is hilarious to me as it wasn’t about Justin at all, but again I did love the episode itself because of all the great stuff with Pat and Courtney dealing with Sam!
Kara debatably kills Master Jailer (she snaps his neck but he is alien so there is a debate if that kills him or just paralyzed him), but if you look at Red Tornado as sentient then he is actually Kara’s first kill.
We will have to agree to disagree Monty on the “best of” list. 🙂
“I will be looking at “Human For a Day” next.” – that’s another good one! UGH season one is filled with such gems! I definitely think Human and “For The Girl Who Has Everything” will be on the fan lists; again if there was a poll of the list I feel Everything might take it but at the very least it’s a great episode to show how you nod to Superman plots without repeating them and how Kara is different from Clark and how you can use those differences to make great episodes we haven’t seen before instead of doing basically gender swapped stuff like we’ve been seeing for years. Every since he came in in season two they’ve been doing her more and more like him and it’s disrespectful to Kara; she is no more her cousin than Lena is her brother! I miss season one’s writing team and how much care they seemed to have for the season/series. 🙁
I hate to be so down on the current creative teams but people come on you have to put some more care into your work because season five was a disaster and again ever since season two you’ve been slowly more and more doing manufactured drama and that’s not good. I get having an off day inspiration wise but you know better than to write Kara like Clark or you should know better. Again I feel every writer on the staff should be mandated to rewatch season one at least twice and then do a one page essay at least on why it works so well because yeah yay again we can’t afford another season 5 in quality.
Supergirl never had a problem with the deo having kryptonite until Superman had a problem with it. The only reason she has a no kill policy is because he does and it’s totally bogus because we’ve seen her kill in at least two episodes after the network transition
An update about Fandome – The Aug. 22 panels (Multiverse 101, BAWSE Females of Color, The Flash and Titans) must be watched at the designated start or encore times, whereas any Sept. 12 panels (Batwoman, Legends, Stargirl etc;) can be streamed at your leisure over a 24-hour period, starting at 1 pm ET.
Aaron on August 20, 2020 at 2:25 pm
“An update about Fandome – The Aug. 22 panels (Multiverse 101, BAWSE Females of Color, The Flash and Titans) must be watched at the designated start or encore times, whereas any Sept. 12 panels (Batwoman, Legends, Stargirl etc;) can be streamed at your leisure over a 24-hour period, starting at 1 pm ET.”
I tried to watch as much of Fandome as I could between work. I was somewhat bemused by the results.
Breaking this into parts due to length…
1 of 3
“Supergirl never had a problem with the DEO having kryptonite until Superman had a problem with it.” – Kara acted like she didn’t even know what Krytonite was until she got shot by it in season one! I know it was just so they could explain it to the audience who may not know but still the character herself appeared a little clueless; once she learned however I do believe you can tell she’s not a fan of it being used because she knows what it feels like but she was NEVER naive about its uses and I think that’s actually the flip in season two that annoyed me so much. I’m fine with Kara agreeing with Clark it’s not a great weapon and it is dangerous (to them) to have around but Kara certainly needed to stand up more for the DEO than she did because she knows while she hates it it does have some value in fighting other bad Kryptonians such as Non.
Kara just rolled over essentially so Clark could rub her belly in his first episode because again she did nothing to actually present a counter argument even though she knows they would need it in case she didn’t stop Non! Be mad Alex murdered Astra, but don’t kid yourself that anything other than kryptonite could have stopped her from killing J’onn in that moment. And of course you have a big threat in Reign – without kryptonite she murders Kara!
Not every Kryptonian is good and as fast as they are Clark and Kara can’t be everywhere at once so what is the DEO suppose to use to protect themselves against bad Kryptonians when they show up? If Kara wants to side with Clark also on how they should be the guardians of the DEO’s shipment I’m also fine with that but again stop being naive to the fact it’s sometimes needed! Also it’s not like the DEO is the only holder of kryptonite, Maxwell Lord has made various varieties of it – that’s how we got Red K and Lex Luthor proudly announces he has a stash; Batman has some thanks to Clark, which okay let’s go there – why is it okay Batman has a piece to stop him if he ever goes to far but the DEO can’t have any? Is it because you don’t trust the larger staff? Okay fine; make it just J’onn and Alex who can hand out ammo so they decide which agents get it in their weapons…do something besides look stupid because you don’t like kryptonite being used on you. Again I get the displeasure but this version of Clark we have acted like it should never be used and this version of Kara knows better but yet what happens – she “yes sir”s him and I have never wanted to smack her so hard in my life.
Kara was just so dumb in those scenes and it was annoying and sad to watch! 🙁
“The only reason she has a no kill policy is because he does and it’s totally bogus because we’ve seen her kill in at least two episodes after the network transition.” – I know Parasite but who am I forgetting?
Going back to the last poll talking about missing the skirt, honestly part of the reason I miss it is because it was a different look from his; also though it is iconic. Her suit now looks like a take on his with small changes and it just makes me feel like they’re turning her into him more and I don’t like that. I know they can’t switch the color scheme to white and red because that’s Powergirl’s look, but maybe they can break up the blue with more red or gold for her in some way…maybe have red or bold visible seams in a design? Something to make it separate from his! I know I should hesitate to say this because it could end up looking like that horrible thing they put Alex in during season five but it would honestly be a starting point so we could work through it a few episodes before switching to a different design.
Barry Allen has had how many versions of the Flash suit now? I think some fans counted it up to 7 so far…if he can get that many alterations then surely Kara can get another too, that would only be 3. Oliver has more than that also; again protect Melissa with pants by all means but definitely consider a redesign to make Kara not look like a Superman copy basically. Sadly it kind of looks like she’s borrowing his suit when he’s not using it and again people Kara is NOT her cousin stop treating her like it. Surely the costume department can come up with a design that has the two suits compliment each other without being copies of each other; I know that’s part of why they did it, because “they’re family and they want to show the whole Stronger Together motto” even though Clark has had zero to do with Kara really based on the history we’ve gotten and NO writers this is not an invitation to shove Clark more into “Supergirl” by showing him visiting a young Kara in Midvale! He left her there because he didn’t want to take on raising her and so let him have that arguably flaw moment because you might actually get some depth from that because as is CW Superman is very one note.
If you can’t come up with a suit design put her back in Lena’s space outfit because at least it looks different; oh and it blocks kryptonite also so there you go – she has protection so she can stop being so naive about others using it.
I just really worry Daryl about the next few years of the series, especially since they now have a series featuring Superman…are they going to pull more and more from caring about “Supergirl”? Are plots meant for her going to go to him now because he’s the Super most know? I would so very much hate if she got pushed to the side simply because he’s in the picture but I do worry about that. And the treatment of “Batwoman” doesn’t help because while Caroline Dries says she cares about Kate Kane that feels dishonest as they’re literally just giving some random the monicker even though this isn’t like Flash where you have Barry Allen, Wally West, or Jay Garrick as The Flash but more like Oliver Queen or Bruce Wayne being the only Green Arrow or Batman! They have literally had an entire fan base yelling at them to keep her as Kate Kane, we know why she’s being recasted and again you literally ended your season on a face swap plot, so they could have at any point announced the new actress and said she was Kate or since they screwed up with the Ryan announcement just say you changed your mind and she’s going to be Kate because you thank Ruby and all she did for you but Kate Kane is Batwoman and you want to explore that story with the respect it is also due and you have elements in play you want to explore with Kate such as the friendship with Kara, it’s not a hard thing to do. Yet here we are coming up on a second season in which Batwoman is just a Bat suit arguably because they couldn’t get access to Bruce Wayne as Batman just yet; with the way some things have been handled I am left asking would they have ever even done season one of “Batwoman” if they could have gotten Batman first? It just feels like the DCTV universe kind of wants to do their take on Batman V Superman but they only have one part right now because again if they really cared about Kate Kane besides the fact her suit is similar also to her cousins than they would have said they’re just recasting not rebooting. True them giving all the typical Super plots to Clark could mean they actually have to write unique stories again for Kara and that could be a good thing but I just worry.
remember when she blasted those white martians with that staff on mars? i think they’re definitely dead
Aaron on August 21, 2020 at 1:42 pm
“Breaking this into parts due to length…”
Answering the same way.
1 of 3
““Supergirl never had a problem with the DEO having kryptonite until Superman had a problem with it.” – Kara acted like she didn’t even know what Krytonite was until she got shot by it in season one! I know it was just so they could explain it to the audience who may not know but still the character herself appeared a little clueless; once she learned however I do believe you can tell she’s not a fan of it being used because she knows what it feels like but she was NEVER naive about its uses and I think that’s actually the flip in season two that annoyed me so much. I’m fine with Kara agreeing with Clark it’s not a great weapon and it is dangerous (to them) to have around but Kara certainly needed to stand up more for the DEO than she did because she knows while she hates it it does have some value in fighting other bad Kryptonians such as Non.”
It actually is Alex who points out to Kara, the hypocrisy of her attitude, considering how vulnerable human beings are to almost anything I can name that exceeds our immune system and biological resistance limits. Nevertheless, would I put my money on a pride of tigers or a tribe of people? Who builds the zoos? THAT is what should worry Kara. She is a tiger and the DEO builds zoos for her kind.
“Kara just rolled over essentially so Clark could rub her belly in his first episode because again she did nothing to actually present a counter argument even though she knows they would need it in case she didn’t stop Non! Be mad Alex murdered Astra, but don’t kid yourself that anything other than kryptonite could have stopped her from killing J’onn in that moment. And of course you have a big threat in Reign – without kryptonite she murders Kara!”
See previous comment. Here’s one. Kara races to put out a fire and DEO snipers tranq dart her. How’s that old water hole ambush trick doing for humanity? Tiger comes to water hole. ZING! Tiger wakes up in cage.
This is in season 1. Superman does not have to tell Kara anything about dangerous people and how they can outsmart her. This is a trope she learns by episode 103. Kryptonians, like her, are dumb and naive.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsufficientlyAdvancedAlien
She should learn to Gary Cooper.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033253/
“Not every Kryptonian is good and as fast as they are Clark and Kara can’t be everywhere at once so what is the DEO suppose to use to protect themselves against bad Kryptonians when they show up? If Kara wants to side with Clark also on how they should be the guardians of the DEO’s shipment I’m also fine with that but again stop being naive to the fact it’s sometimes needed! Also it’s not like the DEO is the only holder of kryptonite, Maxwell Lord has made various varieties of it – that’s how we got Red K and Lex Luthor proudly announces he has a stash; Batman has some thanks to Clark, which okay let’s go there – why is it okay Batman has a piece to stop him if he ever goes to far but the DEO can’t have any? Is it because you don’t trust the larger staff? Okay fine; make it just J’onn and Alex who can hand out ammo so they decide which agents get it in their weapons…do something besides look stupid because you don’t like kryptonite being used on you. Again I get the displeasure but this version of Clark we have acted like it should never be used and this version of Kara knows better but yet what happens – she “yes sir”s him and I have never wanted to smack her so hard in my life.”
Tiger, tiger at the DEO.
Didn’t they tell you
about the greenish glow?
Or why they have
red sunlamps everywhere.
Including the med-bay
where you get medical care?
Now you find yourself in a cage
Next to Max Lord, that clown
You wonder how they put you down
cause by now you’ve been around
You are in a state of helpless rage
Cause you forgot the basic rules
Human beings are much smarter than you
and they use tools!
“Kara was just so dumb in those scenes and it was annoying and sad to watch! :(”
Tiger, Tiger.
“The only reason she has a no kill policy is because he does and it’s totally bogus because we’ve seen her kill in at least two episodes after the network transition.” – I know Parasite but who am I forgetting?”
I have a body count list somewhere.
https://listofdeaths.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl#:~:text=%20Elseworlds%2C%20Part%203%20Edit%20%201%20Barry,3%20A.M.A.Z.O%20-%20Destroyed%20by%20Brainy%20More%20
“Going back to the last poll talking about missing the skirt, honestly part of the reason I miss it is because it was a different look from his; also though it is iconic. Her suit now looks like a take on his with small changes and it just makes me feel like they’re turning her into him more and I don’t like that. I know they can’t switch the color scheme to white and red because that’s Powergirl’s look, but maybe they can break up the blue with more red or gold for her in some way…maybe have red or bold visible seams in a design? Something to make it separate from his! I know I should hesitate to say this because it could end up looking like that horrible thing they put Alex in during season five but it would honestly be a starting point so we could work through it a few episodes before switching to a different design.”
It can be a skirt. Fashion drives context. However; if practical is the order of the day, then for a police officer or soldier a set of clothing with POCKETS and a harness to hang tools and gear on would be expected. Much as I dislike LIEFELD!, he did get that right, when he drew his caricatures of superheroes. I expect to see professional crimefighters to have fanny packs, pouches, cell phone pockets, and hidey spots on their work clothes where they carry spare handcuffs and pop-out lead-lined suits, a la Flash, to negate the green, the black, the red, and gold and all the other nasty color coded K out there.
“Barry Allen has had how many versions of the Flash suit now? I think some fans counted it up to 7 so far…if he can get that many alterations then surely Kara can get another too, that would only be 3. Oliver has more than that also; again protect Melissa with pants by all means but definitely consider a redesign to make Kara not look like a Superman copy basically. Sadly it kind of looks like she’s borrowing his suit when he’s not using it and again people Kara is NOT her cousin stop treating her like it. Surely the costume department can come up with a design that has the two suits compliment each other without being copies of each other; I know that’s part of why they did it, because “they’re family and they want to show the whole Stronger Together motto” even though Clark has had zero to do with Kara really based on the history we’ve gotten and NO writers this is not an invitation to shove Clark more into “Supergirl” by showing him visiting a young Kara in Midvale! He left her there because he didn’t want to take on raising her and so let him have that arguably flaw moment because you might actually get some depth from that because as is CW Superman is very one note.”
Soldiers dress for their work to blend in. This is about four separate color palettes and a dozen different types of MACHINES that they have special clothing sets issued to them to use.
Or from a fashion sense… Human beings, male and female, plummage themselves in clothes to dress to impress. They use variety to project their image of themselves upon the world. They suit clothing to setting. Supergirl meeting the Durlan-liar illegal alien president, should have worn a business attire or formal diplomatic ensemble, not her street-fighter outfit.
“If you can’t come up with a suit design put her back in Lena’s space outfit because at least it looks different; oh and it blocks kryptonite also so there you go – she has protection so she can stop being so naive about others using it.”
See all my previous co0mments.
“I just really worry Daryl about the next few years of the series, especially since they now have a series featuring Superman…are they going to pull more and more from caring about “Supergirl”? Are plots meant for her going to go to him now because he’s the Super most know? I would so very much hate if she got pushed to the side simply because he’s in the picture but I do worry about that. And the treatment of “Batwoman” doesn’t help because while Caroline Dries says she cares about Kate Kane that feels dishonest as they’re literally just giving some random the monicker even though this isn’t like Flash where you have Barry Allen, Wally West, or Jay Garrick as The Flash but more like Oliver Queen or Bruce Wayne being the only Green Arrow or Batman! They have literally had an entire fan base yelling at them to keep her as Kate Kane, we know why she’s being recasted and again you literally ended your season on a face swap plot, so they could have at any point announced the new actress and said she was Kate or since they screwed up with the Ryan announcement just say you changed your mind and she’s going to be Kate because you thank Ruby and all she did for you but Kate Kane is Batwoman and you want to explore that story with the respect it is also due and you have elements in play you want to explore with Kate such as the friendship with Kara, it’s not a hard thing to do. Yet here we are coming up on a second season in which Batwoman is just a Bat suit arguably because they couldn’t get access to Bruce Wayne as Batman just yet; with the way some things have been handled I am left asking would they have ever even done season one of “Batwoman” if they could have gotten Batman first? It just feels like the DCTV universe kind of wants to do their take on Batman V Superman but they only have one part right now because again if they really cared about Kate Kane besides the fact her suit is similar also to her cousins than they would have said they’re just recasting not rebooting. True them giving all the typical Super plots to Clark could mean they actually have to write unique stories again for Kara and that could be a good thing but I just worry.”
I am really confident that Tyler Hoechlin will be about as goofy and popular as Nicholas cage Superman. Kiss of Death for “mini-man”.
Should recast the part.
Bar-gerbilette has been ruined. I will watch enough to be fair, but I am confident that the people running, (ruining?), that show have lost the thread of it, and will soon be cancelled. Hope I am wrong, but I cannot go against my gut on that one.
Unique stories for Kara with Derek Simon around? % chance? Has anyone, human, been struck by lightning on Mars recently?
Monty
2 of 3
I miss season one Kara so much; she was still the peppy blonde cheerleader who believed in basically everyone but she wasn’t super naive like others in her family and she thought along with punching which gave her depth and even when they took a plot that had been done many times for Clark, the fact Kara is an individual with a different life history from him she responded differently which made that cliche plot feel new – again see something like “For The Girl Who Has Everything”. Clark will never know Krypton to the level Kara does, he can’t because he was a kid when he was forced to leave while she actually has memories still of it so any Krypton past plot is going to be better with her. Kara is not Clark and so she allows you to do things with a Super that you can’t do with him because of the perception he now has with the character and people putting expectations on him yet what have they done for the last 3 years of the show – wrote poor Kara as almost a female Clark even though she’s not.
They even gave her the same career path as him, a reporter even though they was NO signs of her wanting to be a reporter in season one. Kara wanted CatCo to be its best and for people to love the magazine, that is more a publicist position than reporter; Cat gave her her own office and was going to let Kara basically make up a position and they want do they do – reporter and somehow Cat has that on an interview from when they first met. Sorry writers, not buying it. And I mean let’s just be real about the situation, if Callista had agree to move to Canada during filming you’d have Cat who knows Kara is Supergirl so it’s not like she’s expecting her to be around like an Assistant anymore…Kara could have picked to be a mail person at the company and Cat would have said fine because she know she needs this job to stay sane and this is Cat’s way of helping Kara because of what Kara does away from the office if you will. Letting Cat go though because Callista didn’t make the move, you still had James who knows who Kara is so again it’s not like she’s keeping strict work hours…it’s a cover so she literally could have been anything at the office, it didn’t not have to be a reporter. Again realistically Kara should be working in the promotions department for CatCo as much as she loves what Cat set up; being in marketing she could have just as easily taken time away even with Lena as the owner or Andrea because she can just say she was at a meeting with investors or distributors. In fact, Kara being in promotions works a lot better for her taking issue with Andrea turning the company digital than her being a reporter as reporters can write anywhere but if CatCo goes digital Kara’s marketing job could be in trouble so she risks losing her beloved space and friends who’s were still there. Also Kara may not care to promote click bait over actual storied news so again her job is gone and who is Kara without that job?
We’ve seen Supergirl is not all Kara can be, she loses herself when she is just one side or the other so she needs a day job. Would she struggle to promote Obsidian and if so how does she feel about possibly losing her job? Yes they kind of did that plot with Snapper when she did the blog in season two but she got welcomed back because friends owned the magazine at that time – Andrea would not roll over so easily unless Lena herself asked her to take Kara back and she would make sure Kara knows it’s just because of Lena so you have organic drama there which is the best kind of drama. If Kara had to get another job because she can’t go back to CatCo what would she do? Would she easily find a place or would she bounce around? That’s character exploration which is a good thing!
I just miss when the creative team seemed to care about the series as much as fans do.
I hate the idea of someone losing their job, much less at a time like this for the economy, but if this group isn’t going to do better than what the did in season five then they need to go and we need to do whatever it takes to get the season one creative team back as much as we can for those who are allowed back (Andrew Kriesberg as an example is not allowed back in studio). This is why I hype Caitlin Parrish so much as the next showrunner, I know her record isn’t perfect in some fans’ minds but it’s better than what we’ve had in the last two seasons! I know some fans take issue with Ali Adler but maybe she needs to come back and straighten things up; we need something because I don’t know about others but I can’t afford another season five, season five broke my heart and hurt my soul to the point I’m not super hyped for season six and I’ve never felt like that with the series before…even with Mon in seasons two and three there was at least something else to enjoy in those seasons but season five there’s just nothing. Even season four had Manchester Black even though his plot leaves me feeling disappointed because of how they just end him and yes Agent Liberty sucks but Sam Wentworth tried with the acting and we had Red Daughter which is the most memorable plot of the season I would say even though it could have been better but season five was just disappointment after disappointment in my opinion.
It felt like they didn’t really care about the season because they were focused on Crisis and if that’s the case then just come out and say it at this point, admit you didn’t put your best foot forward but say you’ll do better in season six!
If we assume they did try with the season then still you have a laughable villain in how Leviathan was handled, Andrea basically disappeared, William was a COMPLETE waste of time, we lost half the season due to a crossover event and we’re still not even sure how much of our character histories hold true to those beyond Kara (as an example was Alex always out when Kara helped remake the world because she put that in there somehow for her sister thinking it was a nice thing to do? Lex changed things so why not others subconsciously if the mold was malleable?! Or are we agreeing that the history we’ve seen and heard so far, seasons 1-4, is correct?), and the second half is taken over by Lex who again just leaves me feeling like they’re doing more Superman stuff than Supergirl. I can understand post Crisis having him on for your continuity but he took over way too much screen time and really 5B was about him not our characters. All respect to Jon Cryer for his great performance but sir you need to go so Lex can go; just like we’ve never actually needed Clark Kent on this series we’ve never actually needed Lex Luthor, we have two of him and they’re named Lillian Luthor and Maxwell Lord so bring them back if you want to do “Lex”. But that wasn’t all because the season five weirdness continues – Q waves never made sense, J’onn’s brother felt like he was made a plot simply to give J’onn something to do, Kelly was pointless and rewritten as some Jack Of The Week’s Trade character so I’m not sure what the plan is with her anymore (let her be a shrink again and stop being scared of the organic drama that may bring writers!), Alex was out of character at points, and they suggested you have to be in a suit to be a hero with that end move towards her of destroying the DEO and literally putting her in a suit event though in season 1-3 they rallied with fans to chant not all heroes wear capes! I would add in Kara didn’t give us much to cheer for either, but let’s be honest Kara hasn’t been our Kara since season one; she’s some Clark mix and that’s not good.
if callista had moved to canada they would definitely have her knowing the truth like they did when she came back at the end of season two except she would have known through the whole season i think. the thing i hate the most about kara losing her job in season two is that alex never knows. are we really supposed to believe kara could lose her job at catco for weeks and alex never finds out?! if you have seen the interview that david ajala did with azie tesfai he said that the door is open for manchester to come back but we all know once the show gets further away from a character the less chance there is for that to happen. they think you have to be a hero in suit if you are a human going back to james deciding to be guardian so them doing it with alex is just them trying it again and hoping it goes better with the audience this time. they tried making snapper a replacement for cat and it just didn’t work. they give kara one line about snapper going on sabbatical in the season three premiere and we never hear his name ever again. sabbaticals aren’t supposed to be permanent
Aaron on August 21, 2020 at 1:46 pm
2 of 3
“I miss season one Kara so much; she was still the peppy blonde cheerleader who believed in basically everyone but she wasn’t super naive like others in her family and she thought along with punching which gave her depth and even when they took a plot that had been done many times for Clark, the fact Kara is an individual with a different life history from him she responded differently which made that cliche plot feel new – again see something like “For The Girl Who Has Everything”. Clark will never know Krypton to the level Kara does, he can’t because he was a kid when he was forced to leave while she actually has memories still of it so any Krypton past plot is going to be better with her. Kara is not Clark and so she allows you to do things with a Super that you can’t do with him because of the perception he now has with the character and people putting expectations on him yet what have they done for the last 3 years of the show – wrote poor Kara as almost a female Clark even though she’s not.”
That is the problem, is it not? How do you write a woman who is a hero. She will think differently and act differently as opposed to a man. That is basically why Wonder Woman the movie worked and Captain Marvel the movie did not. A woman hero acted the way a woman hero might act with that strange mix of compassion and ruthlessness that I’ve seen women use in “Wonder Woman”. Also with the same disbelief at the rational of male logic. Captain Marvel might as well have been another guy in that suit. Brie Larson missed the boat as did the writers as to what makes Carol Danvers actually CAROL. She does not show the female viewpoint as to how things ought to work with the worldview.
“They even gave her the same career path as him, a reporter even though they was NO signs of her wanting to be a reporter in season one. Kara wanted CatCo to be its best and for people to love the magazine, that is more a publicist position than reporter; Cat gave her her own office and was going to let Kara basically make up a position and they want do they do – reporter and somehow Cat has that on an interview from when they first met. Sorry writers, not buying it. And I mean let’s just be real about the situation, if Callista had agree to move to Canada during filming you’d have Cat who knows Kara is Supergirl so it’s not like she’s expecting her to be around like an Assistant anymore…Kara could have picked to be a mail person at the company and Cat would have said fine because she know she needs this job to stay sane and this is Cat’s way of helping Kara because of what Kara does away from the office if you will. Letting Cat go though because Callista didn’t make the move, you still had James who knows who Kara is so again it’s not like she’s keeping strict work hours…it’s a cover so she literally could have been anything at the office, it didn’t not have to be a reporter. Again realistically Kara should be working in the promotions department for CatCo as much as she loves what Cat set up; being in marketing she could have just as easily taken time away even with Lena as the owner or Andrea because she can just say she was at a meeting with investors or distributors. In fact, Kara being in promotions works a lot better for her taking issue with Andrea turning the company digital than her being a reporter as reporters can write anywhere but if CatCo goes digital Kara’s marketing job could be in trouble so she risks losing her beloved space and friends who’s were still there. Also Kara may not care to promote click bait over actual storied news so again her job is gone and who is Kara without that job?”
Interesting. Advertising or financial or she could have been the IT, instead of Winn, who could have been the publicist. Why not make Kara a labrat like Alex? Only Kara does the computer science thingy and this generates a lot of story leads as Kara hacks everybody.
“We’ve seen Supergirl is not all Kara can be, she loses herself when she is just one side or the other so she needs a day job. Would she struggle to promote Obsidian and if so how does she feel about possibly losing her job? Yes they kind of did that plot with Snapper when she did the blog in season two but she got welcomed back because friends owned the magazine at that time – Andrea would not roll over so easily unless Lena herself asked her to take Kara back and she would make sure Kara knows it’s just because of Lena so you have organic drama there which is the best kind of drama. If Kara had to get another job because she can’t go back to CatCo what would she do? Would she easily find a place or would she bounce around? That’s character exploration which is a good thing!”
With computer hacker web-pirate Kara, the problem solves itself.
“I just miss when the creative team seemed to care about the series as much as fans do.”
You mean before Derek Simon put the whammy on the writers bullpen?
“I hate the idea of someone losing their job, much less at a time like this for the economy, but if this group isn’t going to do better than what they did in season five then they need to go and we need to do whatever it takes to get the season one creative team back as much as we can for those who are allowed back (Andrew Kriesberg as an example is not allowed back in studio.). This is why I hype Caitlin Parrish so much as the next showrunner, I know her record isn’t perfect in some fans’ minds but it’s better than what we’ve had in the last two seasons! I know some fans take issue with Ali Adler but maybe she needs to come back and straighten things up; we need something because I don’t know about others but I can’t afford another season five, season five broke my heart and hurt my soul to the point I’m not super hyped for season six and I’ve never felt like that with the series before…even with Mon in seasons two and three there was at least something else to enjoy in those seasons but season five there’s just nothing. Even season four had Manchester Black even though his plot leaves me feeling disappointed because of how they just end him and yes Agent Liberty sucks but Sam Wentworth tried with the acting and we had Red Daughter which is the most memorable plot of the season I would say even though it could have been better but season five was just disappointment after disappointment in my opinion.”
Yes; to Caitlin Parish. NO! to Ali Adler. Import Mike Johnson or Sterling Gates?
Andrew Kreisberg cannot be allowed near any creative project. I just came down from a hideous replay of the Jeffrey Epstein documentary and I am SICK to my stomach of the horrors revealed and why the “me-too” movement is absolutely necessary.
https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-les-wexner-art-lawsuit-family-portrait-2019-7
“It felt like they didn’t really care about the season because they were focused on Crisis and if that’s the case then just come out and say it at this point, admit you didn’t put your best foot forward but say you’ll do better in season six!”
If they had cared about “Crisis of Infinite Earths”, the creative team would not have let Derek Simon write any part of it.
“If we assume they did try with the season then still you have a laughable villain in how Leviathan was handled, Andrea basically disappeared, William was a COMPLETE waste of time, we lost half the season due to a crossover event and we’re still not even sure how much of our character histories hold true to those beyond Kara (as an example was Alex always out when Kara helped remake the world because she put that in there somehow for her sister thinking it was a nice thing to do? Lex changed things so why not others subconsciously if the mold was malleable?! Or are we agreeing that the history we’ve seen and heard so far, seasons 1-4, is correct?), and the second half is taken over by Lex who again just leaves me feeling like they’re doing more Superman stuff than Supergirl. I can understand post Crisis having him on for your continuity but he took over way too much screen time and really 5B was about him not our characters. All respect to Jon Cryer for his great performance but sir you need to go so Lex can go; just like we’ve never actually needed Clark Kent on this series we’ve never actually needed Lex Luthor, we have two of him and they’re named Lillian Luthor and Maxwell Lord so bring them back if you want to do “Lex”. But that wasn’t all because the season five weirdness continues – Q waves never made sense, J’onn’s brother felt like he was made a plot simply to give J’onn something to do, Kelly was pointless and rewritten as some Jack Of The Week’s Trade character so I’m not sure what the plan is with her anymore (let her be a shrink again and stop being scared of the organic drama that may bring writers!), Alex was out of character at points, and they suggested you have to be in a suit to be a hero with that end move towards her of destroying the DEO and literally putting her in a suit event though in season 1-3 they rallied with fans to chant not all heroes wear capes! I would add in Kara didn’t give us much to cheer for either, but let’s be honest Kara hasn’t been our Kara since season one; she’s some Clark mix and that’s not good.”
I blame Derek Simon. He started the train wreck and steered it off the tracks into the gulch. It is not hard to see his hand on the throttle.
Monty
3 of 3
We cheered for Kara in season one because she was hopeful, but we praised Kara in season one because she thought first and punched second. She used her words of peace to try and reach people. While she and Clark both S live in hope their executions are different – she talks about it while also showing it through her actions where as he just plays hero which gives people hope but he’s not the messenger that she is.
We relish in the depth season one Kara shows when she talks about how she doesn’t like Kryptonite but she’s not naive to its uses against those who would do them harm which sometimes includes her. Again see “Falling” and how they don’t have a lot of weapons to combat her if she’s not in control of herself! It’s not like the DEO is jumping to use Kryptonite on Kryptonians but if they need it then they’re glad they have it. Clark acts like anyone with Kryptonite is going to use it against him and that’s not true.
We were in awe and discussed the series even more when Kara seemingly killed Master Jailer because that’s not something you get from Superman and again it’s not like Kara took joy in that but when it’s the only way to stop someone from killing an innocent you’re going to do what you have to do. Even “Man Of Steel” Superman knows that; he didn’t want to kill Zod but Zod wasn’t going to stop attacking the family unless he did so Clark made the choice to end his life to save theirs because they were innocent. You want Clark to have a “no kill” policy fine, but that doesn’t mean Kara has to have one. And just because Kara doesn’t have one doesn’t mean that has to be her first response; see Parasite (in season two so again we know you can get it right past season one writers so why did you screw up so bad in season 5?) in how she gave him chance after chance and it was only when he gave her no other choice that she killed him.
We fell in love with Kara’s love for her sister Alex. Clark may prefer to go it alone but Kara doesn’t and you can argue having Alex and company with her makes her the better hero long run. CW Clark Kent himself has said Kara can beat him and part of that strength comes from her emotional connections which he doesn’t have as many of so, yes he has Lois but that’s really it, again while similar it’s their differences that get us hyped!
“Supergirl” Kara Danvers is not any version of Clark Kent and for that we are SO thankful! It’s not that we dislike the man of steel but we fight for Kara because of reasons listed above and how she takes what we know from him and expands on it. She is unique and complex and that’s not a bad thing!
If we wanted to watch Superman viewers could have put in any number of movies, shows, or animated series but we keep coming back each week to “Supergirl” because she is again the building on a familiar foundation and again she can do things Clark Kent will never be able to do because at this point he has a set image of beliefs and system for how he operates, it’s the same reason some fans get mad at Batman for using a gun even if firing that weapon will save his life in the moment so he can crime fight another day and save more, that fans expect but Kara doesn’t not have those limitations because not many know her story. It’s also ok to have both Superman and Supergirl in the world so again PLEASE do not forget about her when you start doing “Superman & Lois” because they are not the same character! Clark is a married father, Kara is single. Clark works alone usually, Kara has a team. Clark punches first because it’s how he’s operated for years, Kara uses her mind along with her fists. Clark doesn’t kill, Kara will if it’s the last resort way to stop someone. You get to explore the entire Super universe with them both in play so embrace that instead of making them copies; you can nod to inspirations without doing a 1 to 1 copy of the events.
Again I don’t know what’s going to happen but I would just LOVE to see season one Kara return to this series and for them to show more care for the show again; even if the series is always just at season two or three level writing where we have some stuff that goes “That does make sense” in the powers department and they do a mix of organic and manufactured drama at least get as close to season one quality as you can because we’re still talking about it 5 years later because it was all handled so well and stood out from the other series at the time. It’s why “Stargirl” is being hyped so much right now – they took the season one approach of writing to characters not plot and they embraced character moments not just action scenes and outside of the season one finale they never treated the audience or characters as dumb (sorry Monty and the STARGIRL writers but Jordan’s death was just so poorly executed and he really felt handicapped from the villain we had seen for 12 episodes before); they had way more organic drama than they did manufactured and people are eating it up to the point it’s probably the most looked forward to return of all the DC shows currently. I get after 5 years it’s hard to be perfect, every series runs into quality dips at a point, but I’m just asking for more care because we know how good this series can be and we want to be able to enjoy it for years to come!
superman in man of steel is learning on the job. it’s practically his first big day. i applaud zack snyder for not just giving him a no kill policy with no explanation. we see the reason for the no kill policy. it really bothers me that people get upset with supergirl for beating superman in season two. let’s look at the alternative. superman beats her and he is still under rhea’s control. that’s not good for anyone so of course supergirl had to beat him and obviously she is stronger because he certainly wouldn’t be beaten by someone weaker than him. that makes no sense
Aaron on August 21, 2020 at 1:53 pm
3 of 3
“We cheered for Kara in season one because she was hopeful, but we praised Kara in season one because she thought first and punched second. She used her words of peace to try and reach people. While she and Clark both S live in hope their executions are different – she talks about it while also showing it through her actions where as he just plays hero which gives people hope but he’s not the messenger that she is.”
“Human for a Day” (Man I need to find the time to watch it again, but I will probably miss this go around.) is HER story. it is built around a massive bluff that women have to run each and every day in a man’s world, and that core story is sheer genius.
“We relish in the depth season one Kara shows when she talks about how she doesn’t like Kryptonite but she’s not naive to its uses against those who would do them harm which sometimes includes her. Again see “Falling” and how they don’t have a lot of weapons to combat her if she’s not in control of herself! It’s not like the DEO is jumping to use Kryptonite on Kryptonians but if they need it then they’re glad they have it. Clark acts like anyone with Kryptonite is going to use it against him and that’s not true.”
Another episode with the Derek Simon touch. Why was the DEO written as if they were stupid?
“We were in awe and discussed the series even more when Kara seemingly killed Master Jailer because that’s not something you get from Superman and again it’s not like Kara took joy in that but when it’s the only way to stop someone from killing an innocent you’re going to do what you have to do. Even “Man Of Steel” Superman knows that; he didn’t want to kill Zod but Zod wasn’t going to stop attacking the family unless he did so Clark made the choice to end his life to save theirs because they were innocent. You want Clark to have a “no kill” policy fine, but that doesn’t mean Kara has to have one. And just because Kara doesn’t have one doesn’t mean that has to be her first response; see Parasite (in season two so again we know you can get it right past season one writers so why did you screw up so bad in season 5?) in how she gave him chance after chance and it was only when he gave her no other choice that she killed him.”
“Man of Steel” is so awful in so many things gotten wrong by the hacks who made it, that I regard it as typical Jon Peters level garbage.
I hate that movie and except for Christopher Nolan who tried to fix that idiotic script, every creative who signed on, should be ashamed to have worked on that garbage project.
I DETEST Henry Cavill as an actor and a human being.
As for Kara and “No-Kill”.
No-kill comes from the Comics Code and the Silver Age. I have no problem with Kara being written clever so that she can “No-Kill”. Clever writing will always earn bonus points from me over lazy writing.
“We fell in love with Kara’s love for her sister Alex. Clark may prefer to go it alone but Kara doesn’t and you can argue having Alex and company with her makes her the better hero long run. CW Clark Kent himself has said Kara can beat him and part of that strength comes from her emotional connections which he doesn’t have as many of so, yes he has Lois but that’s really it, again while similar it’s their differences that get us hyped!”
Smart charismatic Tiger versus Tyler Hoechlin. Yeah, I go with Melissa.
““Supergirl” Kara Danvers is not any version of Clark Kent and for that we are SO thankful! It’s not that we dislike the man of steel but we fight for Kara because of reasons listed above and how she takes what we know from him and expands on it. She is unique and complex and that’s not a bad thing!”
Please explain the “GIRL” to Derek Simon.
“If we wanted to watch Superman viewers could have put in any number of movies, shows, or animated series but we keep coming back each week to “Supergirl” because she is again the building on a familiar foundation and again she can do things Clark Kent will never be able to do because at this point he has a set image of beliefs and system for how he operates, it’s the same reason some fans get mad at Batman for using a gun even if firing that weapon will save his life in the moment so he can crime fight another day and save more, that fans expect but Kara doesn’t not have those limitations because not many know her story. It’s also ok to have both Superman and Supergirl in the world so again PLEASE do not forget about her when you start doing “Superman & Lois” because they are not the same character! Clark is a married father, Kara is single. Clark works alone usually, Kara has a team. Clark punches first because it’s how he’s operated for years, Kara uses her mind along with her fists. Clark doesn’t kill, Kara will if it’s the last resort way to stop someone. You get to explore the entire Super universe with them both in play so embrace that instead of making them copies; you can nod to inspirations without doing a 1 to 1 copy of the events.”
Have I mentioned why I watch Supergirl? I like variety and I like the complete pallette of super-heroics. When Supergirl is made the write/right way, we get to experience a different point of view that expands our mythic experience. If she is Superman in a woman’s body, what differences do we learn? None. It is necessary to have that different point of view to expand ourselves. A good show not only entertains by story, it elevates the audience experience by showing and teaching a PoV that will make the audience stretch itself and learn that there are ways to look at reality that are not usual, trite, or convenient. If done the write/right way, the teaching moment can be as cathartic as the plot climax. Show, do not preach, and do not put a man in the skirt. If I have not been clear about this lesson, heretofore, then I write it plainly now. Kara is a Super GIRL as Cat Grant leads us into the series. She should not be a Super “man”.
“Again I don’t know what’s going to happen but I would just LOVE to see season one Kara return to this series and for them to show more care for the show again; even if the series is always just at season two or three level writing where we have some stuff that goes “That does make sense” in the powers department and they do a mix of organic and manufactured drama at least get as close to season one quality as you can because we’re still talking about it 5 years later because it was all handled so well and stood out from the other series at the time. It’s why “Stargirl” is being hyped so much right now – they took the season one approach of writing to characters not plot and they embraced character moments not just action scenes and outside of the season one finale they never treated the audience or characters as dumb (sorry Monty and the STARGIRL writers but Jordan’s death was just so poorly executed and he really felt handicapped from the villain we had seen for 12 episodes before); they had way more organic drama than they did manufactured and people are eating it up to the point it’s probably the most looked forward to return of all the DC shows currently. I get after 5 years it’s hard to be perfect, every series runs into quality dips at a point, but I’m just asking for more care because we know how good this series can be and we want to be able to enjoy it for years to come!”
No worries from me about Jordan, Aaron. I thought it was well executed for the reasons I gave. You do not have to agree at all.
I hope what I wrote about Supergirl shows you how I think the show needs to be fixed.
Monty
I can tell you right now Daryl it’s not going to go over better with me; in fact I will rage against that even more than I did James as Guardian because as Monty has said we know James has an obsession with being up there with the Supers so while the plot is random for him in season two it’s not out of character. Alex on the other hand has never needed a suit not has she ever sought after a suit so they need to keep all them extremely far away from her unless it’s a black polo shirt with a DEO logo on it because that’s the only suit she needs! And again I say James never even needed that suit to begin with because he already had a plot leading CatCo and he could have done interesting things there but it’s like they were afraid to give the guy a “girl job” even though Perry White is a man who runs a paper too.
James could have been so much more interesting and productive in season two if they just let him be the news man he was; and you know I think that’s the most frustrating part of a lot of this stuff with the writers – it’s not sweeping changes they have to make to the series it’s just little tweaks here and there which make big changes such as had they kept James as the CatCo head only they could have avoided SO much fan hate for the Guardian persona and who knows maybe even Mechad would still be on the show right now.
As for your sabbatical comment in regards to Snapper, I guess he’s in the same town as Maxwell Lord because where has that guy been?! He got a hold of the Omegahedron and we’ve seen nothing since. 🙁 I get maybe they can’t get Peter for the part but you know there is such a think as recasting the part; maybe Max won’t be as cool as he was when Peter played him but he would be there!
“It really bothers me that people get upset with Supergirl for beating Superman in season two” – SAME! Your points aside, Supergirl has actual training from both J’onn and Alex by that stage of the series so while physically Clark may be able to punch harder he still has to be able to land that punch in order for it to be effective and he can’t do that if Kara knows how to evade now thanks to training. In the comics she’s trained by Wonder Woman herself and again tactics matter! Again Clark may be able to punch harder but Diana wins a lot of the fights because she has more skills – again you can’t punch what you can’t hit; that annoyed me in “Justice League” also, true you can say Clark was juiced up on the Motherbox at the time but still that should have been a more even fight because of all of her training. Then again “Justice League” could have used more Wonder Woman period.
Also there’s the fact they’re not going to have the hero get beat on their own show by someone else, that would be like having Barry Allen beat up Clark on “Superman & Lois” – it’s not going to happen because of promotion. Technically Barry moves at the speed of light and yes Clark is fast but he’s not that fast so Barry could easily one shot one kill him with a Kryptonite blade and that would be it for the man of steel but they aren’t going to do that. In a crossover X might win over Y but on your own show no; the only way that happens is via a two parter in which you lose the first part for drama and then just totally kick butt in part two because again name when a hero has lost on their own show? Even “Stargirl” which was set up perfectly to have the bad guys win this round even if the team stops the satellite still had the hero win!
I think some of it was just ego too as some people think it’s impossible for a girl to beat a boy because boy’s physical punch harder but physical strength is not all there is to a realistic battle. There’s endurance training and how you can punch as hard as you want but if you can’t lift your arm by minute 3 and I can I’m most likely going to win. There’s tactical training and how again you can punch hard all you want but if you can’t hit me you can’t beat me. There’s environmental factors and how again you can hit harder all day long but if I smack you with a piece of the sidewalk it’s still going to hurt you. General boys and girls aside there’s the fact some don’t like to admit faults with their favorite characters and again Clark comes with preconceived ideas and DC has hyped as arguably the most powerful hero in their line up so if he gets beat people call foul event though it’s realistic he would lose in that 1 V 1 fight.
Taking back into account what you said about story reasons she had to beat him, say he wins the fight and as you pointed out he’s still under Rhea’s control – how are you going to stop him? Kryptonite, which again is why it’s needed in the world and Kara would know that. Again she can not want it used on her or anyone else because she knows the pain it causes but in the choice between searing pain for a hour versus thousands dead because you didn’t stop Clark sooner I think she would take the searing pain and so would he because he’s suppose to be a clear cut hero not an anti hero.
DC Comics Fandome Playback…
WW Panel.
Gal Gadot is awesome on the Q as usual.
Pedro Pasqual? I cannot wait for his neck snap to come soon enough. How did they cast this low-energy non-presence as Max Lord? To quote him; “I’m going to look like a fool.” Yup. I can see that happening. I’m hoping they put the bucket on his head as they do in the Mandelorian. I can use the chuckles.
Kristen Wiig is a cypher to me. 47 is a bit old for a Cheetah actress.
Chris Pine is unusually quiet.
Patty Jenkins managed the panel exceptionally well. Gal Gadot sells the film well.
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Sandman panel.
Neil Gaiman is the first guest. Not a fan at all of the Sandman Universe (Morpheus).
G. Willow Wilson, second guest, is the current writer of “The Dreaming”. I liked her work on Ms. Marvel. Not happy about her Wonder Woman run being cancelled.
Boring. Even the TV series plug and sale is poorly handled and does not hold my interest at all. Remember what I wrote about “magic” stories and how I am not thrilled by cliché writing?
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Batwoman segment.
Javicia Leslie… crash and burn PR blurb.
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Multiverse 101
I believe the Copenhagen Interpretation of probability distribution in QM, so NSA. Jim Lee is no Dan Didio and Greg Berlanti is kind of a fuzzball. The sell is NTG.
Walter Hermada (DC films) tries to explain the Ezra Miller insert into the Greg Berlanti crossover and that is funny.
Watchmen is being shoved aside according to Jim Lee?
Matt Reeves Batgerbil is off to one side. Joker is out on its own? This is a mess. Flashpoint is a big ?
Jim Lee is the gatekeeper? Oh boy, that is NOT TOO GOOD. The CCO is not what Jim Lee should be.
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Flashpoint
Ezra Miller, actor, needs a keeper.
Andy Musciuetti, director, needs a keeper.
Christina Hobson, writer, “might” be sane, but I think the jury of psychiatrists is out on that one.
Barbara Muschietti is the producer? How much nepotism is in play here?
Fun Flashfact… All of these people are not acting. They ARE ACTUALLY INSANE.
Have I mentioned that I hate time travel stories?
Murphy… those nutty people are going to base their movie off the New 52 Flashpoint? (Sound of toilet flushing.).
When did DC originally screw up? Flash 123 “The Flash of Two Worlds”.
Andy Warhol made a Batman/Dracula movie? Okay… this universe is officially Earth 666.
Second proof? Ezra Miller wants his Flash character to meet Nicholas Cage Superman. Ezra Miller is insane and has no tastes.
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Suicide Squad
James Gunn. Based on his Guardians of the Galaxy work, I have high hopes this film will be better than the first movie…
John Ostrander inspired? Ratcatcher is in it? Polkadot Man?
Competitive Suicide Squad trivia… Man, James Gunn can SELL his movie.
I am loving this huge cast for chemistry, except for Margot Robbie: too much ego in the She-go.
All in all, including the trailer shown, that was a FUN panel.
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Venus Williams and Patty Jenkins discuss Wonder Woman, good sales segment. For a time filler between panels it is dope.
Patty Jenkins actually talks about how “Wonder Woman” contains dress and thought process and actions from a woman’s point of view. That (^^^) goes directly to what I wrote about needs to happen inside Supergirl the TV series.
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Women of Color in DC
Nice information. More time-filler than anything else. Fails to sell the shows supposedly spotlighted.
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Aside time on Suicide Squad. I had never heard of Mongal, so…
A lot of street-level Flash and Batman rogues and then you get her?
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Mongal_%28New_Earth%29
That is a lot of firepower for a South American dictator rub-out. It is like sending in Kara to take out Pablo Escobar and then one saddles her with the Brady Bunch as fellow soldiers in the mission. Just who is assembling this squad; Bozo the Clown Colonel?
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Shazam panel
Waste of time for a mere title reveal.
End of part 1.
Monty
Part 2 Fandome
Legacy of Batman…
Batwoman producer: Catherine Dries
Now I understand why this show is totally screwed up. She presents herself as incompetent as I suspected. Sheesh this panel is packed with Pinnochios and Geppettos. Epic fail. Kate Kane is still part of the show? So Kate Kane is around?
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Joker panel
Crazy Frank Miller is of course present. Ugh.
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Milestone Comics (Dwayne McDuffie. I LOVE Dwayne McDuffie!)
Marc Benardon
Reggie Hudlin
Denys Cowan
Jim Lee again
Phil Lamarr
I learned history I did not know. IMAGE and Milestone actually started out the same way? Milestone had better people, but got shafted harder by the DC suits. Really sad.
On the positive side; Static Shock may be on the rebound. A movie?
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Zack Snyd4r Cut Panel
Yeahhh. I ain’t buying the trash he’s trying to sell. I’ve seen a lot of the outtakes, and I’ve tried in my mind’s eye to figure out a way to make what I’ve seen work. I have long concluded that Zack Snyder screwed up whatever was the original intent he wrote and even in the original intent, I never accepted his vision of the Justice League. Of course I have no respect for any of his work, either; and I have no respect for him.
His panel?
Henry Cavil? At first I thought the acting police had caught up with this no-talent charisma-less person and had jailed him for crimes against good acting, but no… some casting agent somewhere has hired this stiff to mis-portray yet another character and pollute another movie.
At least he has been exiled to Bollywood.
Ray Fisher, the man who misplayed Cyborg. Nah, he still comes across as the token toaster and is a Q minus.
Mythology is based on fantasy, Mister Snyder?
Well… Zack Snyder shows a bit of why he is incompetent. The guy thinks he has to explain mythology in story telling to his betters? Mythology is applied METAPHOR. Someone should explain that truth to him while they give him short order cooking lessons.
Ezra Miller. Interestingly in that segment, Zack Snyder reveals that he has gone back to his hack roots, which is directing trash music video shorts in the desert out in California when Ezra pesters him for more screen time in the “Zack Snyder Cut”. Supposed to be a inside joke but it is close enough to the truth about those two. Could not happen to a nicer pair of losers. If someone is foolish enough to hire Mister Snyder to direct or Mister Miller to act in another film, well… next job for that slob might involve the question; “Do you want fries with that?”
One thing Snyder did right… Gal Gadot. Well; a bad clock strikes right time once when you set the hands and wind it up.
A better director, Patty Jenkins, feeds Zack some pablum.
The rest of the segment is p.r. grits. I really hate this movie, this director, and the faked up campaign to create this unneeded film pollutant to further degrade the DC mythos.
Ms. Fiona Zheng is delusional. Dexter Washington? Same read.
The sneak peak Snyder showed was GARBAGE. This was the quality of work that got his donkey fired in the first place.
If I hated his work before, this manure just reminded me why. The callback to Watchmen was another fail editing moment. Better get used to flipping hamburgers, Mister Snyder. GRRRR.
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Black Adam Panel
Dwayne the Rock Johnson is a great salesman. He has nothing to show as product after 10 years of work. The sales pitch reminds me of his pro-wrestling roots when he was just starting his career. His one man sales personal show is incredibly effective even as shopworn as it has become. The guy has Q out his kazoo.
We’re going to get the JSA in this movie! This is so early in the project that we have no idea of just who is slated to be cast, who the character lists are, who the director is.
Tentative…JSA…
Hawkman… boo.
Cyclone… really?
Atom Smasher… ehh…
Doctor Fate? … i suppose.
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Part 2 end
“She will think differently and act differently as opposed to a man.” – I’m not sure why gender matters here as man A may also act differently from man B in a situation due to individuality. Being an individual is what makes someone do something different from others not their gender. Maybe I’m taking this bit too technical though?
Kara did say she spent a lot of time with her dad in his lab so while I don’t really think IT screams Kara instantly, especially as she’s show trouble getting some things to work on the level Winn can, it could have worked if they took time to show Winn teaching her. Still I think they kept her out of that zone to give him that space in the immediate world. I don’t know about finance as Kara has really shown no interest there but yes I stick by publicity would have been more in character for her to go for the magazine than being a report; being reporter was the most cliche way they could have gone with her especially given the Clark connection.
Maybe Sterling Gates could do a few episodes to test his worth as it were and then if they turn out well he could move more into the next season? I’m open to ideas as again I don’t want another season five! Heck if they want to save money hire some of us fans because I doubt we could do worse than was season five…you’d basically have to not turn in a script to be worse than season five that’s how much they missed the mark in the season post Crisis especially! I don’t really know enough on Mike Johnson to say anything on him but again I’m not sure how he could do worse than what we got so we might as well test him as a back up along with Gates.
“47 is a bit old for a Cheetah actress.” – I’m not sure what age has to do here unless you’re concerned about her physically keeping up and her ability to return in another film if Cheetah survives this. I’m looking forward to seeing her stuff in this movie, she kind of has a Michael Keaton thing going on where she’s not people’s first choice for the part but she may end up being amazing in the role just as he is now many people’s version of Batman for live action (Kevin Conroy is probably the Batman for most on a whole because of that voice and usually the stuff he’s involved in is well written).
I still think Steve is going to be some figment of Diana’s imagination because he hasn’t aged and we saw him die in WW; also if you take the films as running in a timeline for her currently then he’s not around by “Justice League” so something is going to happen to take him out. I’m a bit annoyed they’re coming back to him so soon in the WW solo movies but having Faust as your villain sort of explains it. I know Diana loves Steve but I REALLY hope they don’t have him in a WW3 because her story is not all about his effect on her, she also has influences like Robin Wright’s character (I can’t spell the name right now) and her mother and just decision Diana herself has made…Steve is a part of her life yes but Steve is not her life. Romance is only part of Diana so while you can say he’s the love of her life (WonderBat fans she also loves Bruce yes but if Steve was there it would be him she picked; Bruce is her big love now and there may be someone post him given Diana lives a very long life but Steve will seemingly always impact her) he’s not all there is to her life – see her choosing to leave him behind when she thought he was tainted by Ares because the mission was important. See Diana choosing to preserve Greek history because it is literally part of her. It’s the pieces together that make up Wonder Woman not just one; again she has their stories to tell besides just those involving Steve.
Also, I have to say I am so glad to see back actual well done Amazon outfits! Hopefully that’s fixed in the Synder Cut too because the bikinis for the Amazons in “Justice League” were SO disappointing to see! You had Patty Jenkins costumes right there you could have not only saved money using them but had continuity!
I’ll admit I haven’t gotten to see Fandome behind some trailer reveals so I enjoyed reading your recap Monty.
WW84 – meh on Steve but I’m excited for this however I have to see it.
Batman (adding THE to everything now doesn’t make us forget about the other films DC) – I enjoyed the trailer and may check it out. I’m not crazy over the hair though for young Bruce.
Black Adam – nice animation but nothing really on the film so it’s a wait and see for an actual trailer.
Suicide Squad – again I want to see an actual trailer. As of right now I’d rather watch “Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League” which will actually probably be out before this film.
Synder Cut – I won’t lie, I laughed when the song hit the saying of “hallelujah” as a shirtless Aquaman came into frame. Ha. Mamoa’s parts seemed more music video than they probably wanted; also the song choice was well done to troll everyone who took out his vision because he knows how much fans want this now. It’s a lot of footage we’ve seen before so I’m wondering just how different the film is going to be and if it will feel like a real movie that was his version or just “Justice League” but with extra bonus scenes added in if that makes sense? It’s a great selling tool to try and get people to care about HBOMax but I do hope they release it in theaters too so I can see it or put it on ddd otherwise I’ll have to wait for it to be on regular cable as I don’t plan on doing streaming services any time soon.
I did see “Flash” had a season seven trailer they showed but since there was no Nora in the trailer I am again out on the series. I do wonder about Barry’s lost speed only in the sense does this mean they’re going to reboot thing again except Oliver stays dead for some reason and that’s how “Stargirl” gets folded into the Earth because you know she’ll be folded in as the cast wants to crossover with “Supergirl” and people will be saying it’s weird they’re not on the same Earth as everyone else the same way they keep saying it about “Black Lightening”. I know filming in Georgia makes it hard to do crossovers but I’m sure they’ll find a way because of something Barry does; I would say bring on the reset but it’s not going to help “Batwoman” unless they somehow rename Ryan Wilder to Kate Kane and I’m worried about the season six of “Supergirl” being not not great because if anyone could make things worse than season five it’s Barry and I don’t know if we could make it to his fix of things after that. 🙁 Again we do not need another season five if we’re going to get a season 10 like I’m hoping!
“Kate Kane is still part of the show? So Kate Kane is around?” – they said they would keep Kate in the universe in case Ruby wanted to come back but still it only hurts their cause because if Kate is around why isn’t she Batwoman? If she’s around why aren’t we going to see more Kara-Kate stuff because you spent half the Crisis after show series hyping up how they were the next Oliver and Barry. If Kate is still around why should I care about seeing Ryan in the suit when I could have her back? They just make things worse every time they talk. *sigh*
Part 3 Fandumb portion.
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Titans Panel 🙁
Ugh. I do not watch this show for “reasons”.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4154798/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t1
Brenton Thwaite is one of the reasons.
Film clip.
However I do love CGI Krypto on this series. BEST ACTOR on the show. Whoever CGIed that rocket propelled grenade needs to join Zack Snyder at the same Bat-Burger joint as a “sales and service associate”.
Joshua Orpin is another reason to reject.
On the other hand… Damaris Lewis … Anna Diop *(Black Fire and Koriand’r respectively) are nice standouts on that panel.
Slade Wilson? (Esai Morales) ehh…
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Aqua… whatever.
James Wan (director) and Patrick Wilson (Ocean Master) are the intros.
Visuals offered… Blue screen technique? Old school works. I love it The colors POP. When you have weak story and gonzo characters, you make up for it in over the top production values and broad effects, and outré acting. The Hong Kong/Irwin Allen cinematic school LIVES!
Discussion of the technicals, how things are practicaled, actor visualized in blank drop-space and how the process works to mesh is stuff i could gobble up all day. I love the technicals.
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Harley Q answers the fans…
Look this segment, Part 3, is overall entitled Fandumb. Hard pass. This is not even bad Seinfeld grade material here. I hated Seinfeld.
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Wonder Woman follow up panel: Gal Gadot, Linda Carter and Patty Jenkins.
Glitz and Blitz. Mostly fluff filler with little as in Zero content.
Next.
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DC Future Heroes panel with Jim Lee.
This is why bone does not put Jim Lee out there as the salesman.
Zero-content. He did mention Supergirl and identity outreach to new audiences.
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Shazam panel (repeat)
Nope. Already covered. Zachary Levi is NTG trying to sell it.
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Wonder Woman (Threepeat playing videogames. The game up is Were Wolf 1984.)
Brief synop. NTG. Pedro Pasqual dies first. Funny.
Hey, it is the Fandumb segment.
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“Suicide Squad; Kill the Justice League” Game sales promosegment.
Who thought this was a good idea? Fire them.
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Batgerbil Panel (Matt Reeves “The Batman”)
Robert Pattinson introed and Matt Reeves featured.
First impression? Zack Snyder light. I am not very hopeful. I get the used car salesman vibe from this clown.
Boy; I miss Batfleck.
The sound of desperation is the overwhelming backboard to this sales pitch. Sounds like a Fox “Gotham” ripoff.
I hope this is a one and dumb movie, because I smell t.u.r.k.e.y…
This “gentleman” is going to further rip-off “Gotham” for the an HBO series based on that premise (Fox/Disney should SUE!)? Why am I not surprised?
Once again, this part 3 is named Fandumb.
Where are the Bat-nipples?
EPIC………..FAAAAAAIIIIIILLLLL!
I suspect Scott Snyder inputted his garbage into this trash-fire.
Video clip.
Camera work reveals group shot cluster staging failures, the horizon line is too high. The PoV staging for the camera sets is completely wrong, as in BACKWARDS to what should be the PoV. Who the hello allowed this guy (Strictly C-grade TV series direction) to make a Bat-movie? “I” can do better than that, and “I” would not allow me to do a Bat-movie.
GRRR.
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I may be able to do clean up further in the next aftershow.
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Monty
Comments and cleanup?
Aaron on August 24, 2020 at 7:35 am
“She will think differently and act differently as opposed to a man.” – I’m not sure why gender matters here as man A may also act differently from man B in a situation due to individuality. Being an individual is what makes someone do something different from others not their gender. Maybe I’m taking this bit too technical though?”
Technically, when creating a charactger, Aaron, the writer has to look at life and learned the differences among archetypes.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand
One of the things that has to happen for a male writer, (Me) is to stop and look at people and understand that women in the aggregate do not think like, talk like or act like men. If I want to create a character and give HER a true voice I have to turn off my “maleness” and try to imagine for me a viewpoint where I am physically much weaker, shorter, more gracile and FASTER in reaction times and more cognizant in overall situational awareness than a “man”.
Those are general physical and mental characteristics of the human female. Her sapience, as she has evolved over time, is feedback looped that way by common descent.
IOW women are cleverer and better environmental manipulators than men.
As a consequence, when I write a female character, with the general baseline differences I know, I start with those differences as definers and then clad specific character viewpoints and references onto her.
Sheryl Holmes will be an entirely different detective than Sherlock Holmes. She may be more resentful of John Watson, because of his class and physical advantages over her, despite her “affection” of the clueless oaf. Her observations and comments will be sharper and more pointed in her interactions with clients and police. The implied cynical criticism that Lestrade will miss, happens because he is not as versed in the “subtle cut” as a woman would be. Irene Adler would not pull the yarn over Sheryl’s eyes.
Well, you asked about “technicals”, Aaron. I gave you a brief working of them.
“Kara did say she spent a lot of time with her dad in his lab so while I don’t really think IT screams Kara instantly, especially as she’s show trouble getting some things to work on the level Winn can, it could have worked if they took time to show Winn teaching her. Still I think they kept her out of that zone to give him that space in the immediate world. I don’t know about finance as Kara has really shown no interest there but yes I stick by publicity would have been more in character for her to go for the magazine than being a report; being reporter was the most cliche way they could have gone with her especially given the Clark connection.”
I suggested treatments that would mark KARA as a unique PoV character in the Arrowverse. Suppose, SHE, was treated as Powergirl is in the DC mythos, as the CEO and owner of her own company? Why should Batgerbil be the DC hero with his own private company? Or Ollie the archer?
That would not be too much of a stretch to write Kara as a Powergirl like template.
“Maybe Sterling Gates could do a few episodes to test his worth as it were and then if they turn out well he could move more into the next season? I’m open to ideas as again I don’t want another season five! Heck if they want to save money hire some of us fans because I doubt we could do worse than was season five…you’d basically have to not turn in a script to be worse than season five that’s how much they missed the mark in the season post Crisis especially! I don’t really know enough on Mike Johnson to say anything on him but again I’m not sure how he could do worse than what we got so we might as well test him as a back up along with Gates.”
You are kidding, Aaron? What Johns is to the revival of the Flash, Gates is to Supergirl. World of New Krypton, what is good in it, was largely his. He stole that whole thing out from under James Robinson and Greg Rucka
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl:_Daughter_of_New_Krypton_(Collected)
““47 is a bit old for a Cheetah actress.” – I’m not sure what age has to do here unless you’re concerned about her physically keeping up and her ability to return in another film if Cheetah survives this. I’m looking forward to seeing her stuff in this movie, she kind of has a Michael Keaton thing going on where she’s not people’s first choice for the part but she may end up being amazing in the role just as he is now many people’s version of Batman for live action (Kevin Conroy is probably the Batman for most on a whole because of that voice and usually the stuff he’s involved in is well written).”
a. Yes. Trust me, there are things I could do younger I cannot do now.
b. Yes. Three years between movies is a LOOOONG time and time marches fast for action heroes and villains. I think we may get one more Wonder Woman out of Gal Gadot and then she is physically DONE. A decade is too long to expect her to keep the physical peak condition up. This truism holds for all human beings. Melissa Benoist as the other example will be in the same predicament.
“I still think Steve is going to be some figment of Diana’s imagination because he hasn’t aged and we saw him die in WW; also if you take the films as running in a timeline for her currently then he’s not around by “Justice League” so something is going to happen to take him out. I’m a bit annoyed they’re coming back to him so soon in the WW solo movies but having Faust as your villain sort of explains it. I know Diana loves Steve but I REALLY hope they don’t have him in a WW3 because her story is not all about his effect on her, she also has influences like Robin Wright’s character (I can’t spell the name right now) and her mother and just decision Diana herself has made…Steve is a part of her life yes but Steve is not her life. Romance is only part of Diana so while you can say he’s the love of her life (WonderBat fans she also loves Bruce yes but if Steve was there it would be him she picked; Bruce is her big love now and there may be someone post him given Diana lives a very long life but Steve will seemingly always impact her) he’s not all there is to her life – see her choosing to leave him behind when she thought he was tainted by Ares because the mission was important. See Diana choosing to preserve Greek history because it is literally part of her. It’s the pieces together that make up Wonder Woman not just one; again she has their stories to tell besides just those involving Steve.”
a. Steve mentored her in WW one. Expect her to mentor Steve in WW two.
b. Antiope. Robin Wright is 54.)
c. Hippolyta (Actress is Connie Nielsen, age 55, currently. I am not expecting much stuntwork from her, either.)
d. Diana is supposed to be a goddess. So she will have that PoV you described so well. Ephemerals (us) will be “blips” to her.
e. Bat/Wonder will never be a thing because Batgerbil is a “playboy with issues”. Thank you Dwayne McDuffie!
“Also, I have to say I am so glad to see back actual well done Amazon outfits! Hopefully that’s fixed in the Synder Cut too because the bikinis for the Amazons in “Justice League” were SO disappointing to see! You had Patty Jenkins costumes right there you could have not only saved money using them but had continuity!”
a. It will be trash in the Snyder obscenity, because he has a trash vision.
b. Clothes make the woman. See my previous comments on this subject upthread.
“I’ll admit I haven’t gotten to see Fandome behind some trailer reveals so I enjoyed reading your recap Monty.”
Hope you like the Fandumb segment.
“WW84 – meh on Steve but I’m excited for this however I have to see it.”
I liked the presentation.
“Batman (adding THE to everything now doesn’t make us forget about the other films DC) – I enjoyed the trailer and may check it out. I’m not crazy over the hair though for young Bruce.”
I’ll be frank, Aaron. I did not like anything I heard or saw. I believe it is headed for an epic fail.
“Black Adam – nice animation but nothing really on the film so it’s a wait and see for an actual trailer.”
Too early, but Dwayne Johnson put forward a strong case. Just the casting slots are kind of ??????
“Suicide Squad – again I want to see an actual trailer. As of right now I’d rather watch “Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League” which will actually probably be out before this film.”
The guy who brought you the talking raccoon and made THAT work is doing this film. Not even Margot Robbie can screw it up.
“Synder Cut – I won’t lie, I laughed when the song hit the saying of “hallelujah” as a shirtless Aquaman came into frame. Ha. Mamoa’s parts seemed more music video than they probably wanted; also the song choice was well done to troll everyone who took out his vision because he knows how much fans want this now. It’s a lot of footage we’ve seen before so I’m wondering just how different the film is going to be and if it will feel like a real movie that was his version or just “Justice League” but with extra bonus scenes added in if that makes sense? It’s a great selling tool to try and get people to care about HBOMax but I do hope they release it in theaters too so I can see it or put it on ddd otherwise I’ll have to wait for it to be on regular cable as I don’t plan on doing streaming services any time soon.”
Trash is. If you know the Tom King reference from “Darkseid is” then you will know exactly what I mean.
“I did see “Flash” had a season seven trailer they showed but since there was no Nora in the trailer I am again out on the series. I do wonder about Barry’s lost speed only in the sense does this mean they’re going to reboot thing again except Oliver stays dead for some reason and that’s how “Stargirl” gets folded into the Earth because you know she’ll be folded in as the cast wants to crossover with “Supergirl” and people will be saying it’s weird they’re not on the same Earth as everyone else the same way they keep saying it about “Black Lightening”. I know filming in Georgia makes it hard to do crossovers but I’m sure they’ll find a way because of something Barry does; I would say bring on the reset but it’s not going to help “Batwoman” unless they somehow rename Ryan Wilder to Kate Kane and I’m worried about the season six of “Supergirl” being not not great because if anyone could make things worse than season five it’s Barry and I don’t know if we could make it to his fix of things after that. 🙁 Again we do not need another season five if we’re going to get a season 10 like I’m hoping!”
Keep the universes separate. Black Lightning and Stargirl could mesh nicely. Supergirl? NTG.
Monty
Fandome Part 4
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Flash Panel
Grant Gustin
Candice Patton
Danielle Panabaker
Carlos Valdes
Jesse Martin
Brandon McKnight
Kayla Compton
Writer and show honcho; Eric Wallace
I am not up to date on the Flash Season 6. I will have to binge it just because I like the character of Doctor Light (Kimyo Hoshi). (Malese Jow is the actress.).
Season 7 had to be rewritten massively because of unexpected issues that materialized during the “break”. The new villain will be “interesting”.
I wonder if the new direction will involve “light characters” much further?
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B’dee, b’dee, b’dee; That’s all folks!
Monty
Brain fart.
The current Doctor Light is played by actress; Emmie Nagata. I goofed.
Monty
“Why should Batgerbil be the DC hero with his own private company? Or Ollie the archer?” – well there is also Ted Kord aka Blue Beetle but I get what your saying Monty; she could have been Lena pre Lena! Maybe they felt her starting out as a top executive didn’t really fit with the growing training arc they wanted to do? Seasons 2 and on are playing off season one’s set up so I get why they don’t go there but still they could have made Kara literally anything within CatCo because season one had it as a cliffhanger but they picked the laziest option out there simply because it’s another way to nod to Clark. 🙁 They forgot the season one motto of “but this isn’t his story, it’s mine”.
“Antiope” – that’s it! I knew what it was I just didn’t think the spelling was ever right when I was working on the post. She is probably my favorite of Wonder Woman after Diana. 🙂
Hippolyta is the leader she doesn’t have to do stunt work in these flashbacks as they mainly look like training for young Diana so she just has to show up. Antiope might get a light work load depending what’s going on but just seeing that course they have set up I could see her doing some things.
“Bat/Wonder will never be a thing” – they were pretty together in Bruce Timms’ “Justice League” animated series, yes it took the whole series almost but they were the couple of it after John and Shayera. 🙂 As you said he has commitment issues but he’s as committed as he can get to Diana and of course Selina. Would they ever have a kid together, maybe not (Bruce and Selina do and she’s called Helena Wayne and is the Prime version of Huntress; without her there would be no Helena Bertinelli version of Huntress so thanks CatBat) because Bruce is already an older gentleman but they could, still I see them as the team is like their family and they’re together for Bruce’s life and she always loves him but yeah they will never die together like some pairings.
“Hope you like the Fandumb segment.” – I enjoy reading all the posts; even if I don’t agree with a statement I still enjoy the fun conversations. 🙂