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In the Supergirl universe the character of Selena is shrouded in mystery. In the 1984 film she is an evil sorceress. After watching the movie twice as many questions remain in my head. How does this human know how to harness the power of the Omegahedran? How does she know of the Phantom Zone? This version of Selena seems determined on world domination. It doesn’t seem to me that she would serve anyone.
In contrast, the Supergirl television series Selena seems to be a servant of her people. What remains of the population of Krypton is living on the moon of Argo. The people were completely dependent on black Krytonite to keep the environment habitable. This version of the character doesn’t seem to want to enslave humanity. She is motivated to destroy the human race and terraform their planet. Selena the Krptonian witch wants a new Krypton to rise from the ashes of Earth. She strives to be a hero to her people using the powers of her genetically engineered daughter Reign.
Please join Green butterfly and Silver Vox as we discuss the character of Selena Kryptonian High Priestess or Evil Sorceress. Which portrayal did you enjoy the best? That is for you to decide. Hope you are having a super summer!
Which Version of Selena Do You Like Better?
- TV Series (100%, 9 Votes)
- Movie (0%, 0 Votes)
Total Voters: 9
Cougar’s Comic Corner
Supergirl: Volume 1, Last Daughter of Krypton (2011-2015)
Released October 23, 2012, Written by Michael Green and Mike Johnson
As a part of the acclaimed DC Comics – The New 52 event of September 2011, meet Supergirl. She’s got the unpredictable behavior of a teenager, the same powers as Superman – and none of his affection for the people of Earth. Crash landing on a strange new planet, Supergirl must come to grips with Krypton’s destruction with her cousin Superman and learn about her own recent past. But an ingenious new foe wants that same information – and will do anything to get it. Presenting an all-new take on the Superman’s cousin Kara, and her standing in the DC Comics – New 52 universe! Collects issues #1-7.
$5.99 on Comixology
Next Time On Maid of Steel!
“Supergirl: Pilot
Join John and Justina as we begin our series on your favorite Supergirl episodes, starting at the beginning with Season 1, Episode 1: Pilot. Get your feedback in to us by July 28 at 6:00pm EDT!
Feedback
We want you to be part of the podcast! After a new episode airs, head over to our feedback site and drop us a quick line, or record a short voicemail, reacting to the events of the episode. What was interesting to you? What stood out? What did the episode do well or, perhaps, what did it not do well? We rely on your input to help round out our conversation and anticipate the opportunity to include your thoughts and theories!
[sc:ms]
What is time? I know it must still exist because sometimes it’s light and then dark and then light again, but it definitely feels different. Is this what it was like for people in the Phantom Zone; a day feels like a month and a month feels like it passes at the speed of hours instead of days? Altered time is getting to me! Ha.
I’ll be honest, every time you say Selena the first person I think of is Selena Kyle aka Catwoman instead. 🙂
Polls!!! 😀
If you liked “Big” you may enjoy the flip take on it that came out a few years ago called “Little” starring Tiffany Haddish; it was really cute!
I completely agree John Clark’s physical arrival to the series wasn’t the thing that brought down the series in quality but it was a factor in my opinion because it made them play even more to the Clark elements rather than Kara. Poor plot handling with Mon, just questionable writing at times and manufactured plots such as Lena and Kara fighting also have played parts in the series feeling not as quality as it was in season one so it’s definitely multiple things that need to be fixed but again Clark’s involvement is one of them; the good news is everything is upgradable if they just do it. Let Kara be who she was in season one – an individual who sometimes will kill a bad guy to stop them when it’s the only way left, a person who made mistakes and admitted it more instead of passing off fault to others…again just because they share DNA and powers doesn’t make Kara Clark! Maybe now that they have a Superman series they’ll be forced to use some Kara comic and animated series plots for “Supergirl” instead of just changing Kara for Clark in Superman stuff; I just hope they don’t dismiss our series because he has one now, I know they’ve done well handling “Flash” as a spin off of “Arrow” but this is my nervous feeling they created by writing Kara like Clark so much, do they remember how to writer her like the individual she was in season one so you have the unique characters they are…I hope so! In a related note: do you think they might switch Clark for Kate and do crossovers with the Superman series more instead of Batwoman now since Kate is not going to be the lead anymore (boo) or do you think they’ll still try to push things with Ryan while occasionally doing crossovers with Clark?
“Stargirl” has been good so far; it’s definitely moving up in the rankings for me! I’m not ready to put it over “Supergirl” or anything even with our horrible season 5 but it’s definitely knocking at third on the list for the shows to me. There’s some things I would nitpick for sure like the Courtney/Cameron cliché romance they’re teasing but on the whole “Stargirl” has been a really strong filler series for the DCTV universe and just a fun, good watch week to week.
“Batwoman”…this is certainly an example of how the mighty have fallen if you will; I still will never understand why they went Ryan instead of just making this new actress Kate! Yes, Kate is going to look different but again YOU LITERALLY ENDED ON A FACE SWAP PLOT; also we know Ruby left so it’s not like back in the day where you’d see a recast and be asking why that happened, fans told you they don’t care if you explain the switch or not just give us Kate but what do they do – reboot. *shakes head* Yes you might get some familiar elements still such as Mary, Alice and Jacob all have the family plot going and Luke and Mary may still be friends but it’s not going to have the same weight it did in season one. Season two may surprise us all and be good but I don’t think the show will ever be to the hype level it was because when you hear Batwoman you want to see Kate Kane so no her no love level like you could have from fans.
LOL to John’s announcer voice; well done sir. 🙂
The Snyder Cut panel is just so people will stop hounding them about the Synder cut of “Justice League” because there will never be a Synder version of the full film, if there was they would have put that out instead but even if you showed what he had done it wouldn’t be a complete film. It’s a nice idea, but I wouldn’t hold my breath over this panel really revealing new physical clips from the film.
YES to calling Chris Mr. Supergirl, no one should scoff at that – it helps pay for the house they’re living in; also it’s facts Melissa is more known than him especially in the DCTV universe. Not to mention how often is a woman referred to as Mrs. Inset Husband’s Name Here so in the interest of equality he can be Mr. Supergirl.
“The big over arching storyline in season 3 was the worldkillers…” – was it? I know that’s what it was meant to be but they really did not get the time they should have. 🙁 Sam got a decent amount of time as Reign but the other two were there and gone before we really knew what was happening. This is where I blame Mon and the Legion because you had so many new characters that season one brining in just 3 extras with Irma and Brainy and Mon but then they wasted time with the Mon/Kara drama and so we only got half of what we should have with the worldkillers I feel and that’s a bummer because they were pretty interesting in what they were and how they could challenge the team.
Well Lena did ALMOST everything she could, she was pretty against bringing in Alex for some reason despite Sam multiple times saying she wanted Alex involved so that was Lena’s bad; I still don’t get why they did this writing wise, it would have given us Lena-Alex time which could have set up an interesting dynamic in future seasons and it would have played to Agent Arias fans by giving Sam and Alex time together. It was just weird how much Sam said she wanted Alex in those episodes but they never show Alex in them working with Lena.
“…when Romacon actually got his act together…” LLOOOLL!!! Let Leviathan go.
WOW, I can just feel how much William has effected Mon in that scene you played because while I was very much still “BYE Mon!” when he was talking I didn’t have as strong an urge to punch him in the face as he talked this time. This by no means means I want Mon back on the series, but it just shows how bad William was to pull this off! “Cringey cute?” – NO Justina!
Odette Annabelle is the MVP of season 3, let’s just call her what she is; while not alone in her awesome performance she is definitely the reason people talk about season 3 still I think. Sam was so intriguing and Reign was such a challenge for the team and Odette played them both so well it was like having season one quality back and we all just loved it! Again I am all for Odie and Sam coming back!
Sam 100% still has her powers, the woman is biologically Kryptonian! The crazy comic book part was the writers thinking they could make the plot work saying she changed into a full human post Reign lock up; Reign by their own cannon was an enhanced Kryptonian so even if you strip the enhanced portion of her DNA that still leaves her core Kryptonian DNA side and so like Kara and Clark and every other Kryptonian who’s been on Earth for at least a month she would have powers! In fact, that’s how you get her back into the show – she’s showing signs of powers and she’s scared it’s Reign so she goes back to Lena and Alex for help but they can’t help her this time beyond building her Kryptonite bracelets to down power her strength which she can wear always because powers come with her DNA on Earth. They can craft her some red sun light bulbs to use at home too but Sam has powers as long as she’s on Earth or anywhere with a yellow sun!
“The DEO is gone” – NO John!
Lena and James was never going to work for me personally because of how James acted towards her in season two; until they had a season of him admitting not all Luthors are evil I was never going to buy that. Could they have been cute if James wasn’t so anti Luthor? Sure. Did that relationship ever work for me? No.
K Vox. 🙂
Proud Katie alum. ? 🙂
Hopefully season six holds better writing and more in depth character work!
*sigh* Hiatus podcast episode round two, still no K Vox photo at the end of the blog post. 🙁
i couldn’t begin to tell you how much of what you said i agree with, aaron
Thanks Daryl; I enjoy your Lena comments because I agree she deserves better than she’s gotten…if Kara is their flip of Clark then Lena was definitely treated sadly like their flip of Lex until they actually had him on and again that’s unfair because Lena is not her brother or mother just because they share DNA or IQ scores!
The way they handled Lena’s and Kara’s dynamic in season five especially was just another reason to hate the season; everything was so manufactured to fit their relatives dynamic instead of their own, it was just annoying especially as it had sadly been going on since season three. Is it realistic Kara and Lena might fight over something? Sure. Was it believable they’d have a falling out like we saw starting in season three? No, that was all completely manufactured drama! 🙁
I don’t know if there will be character centric hiatus episodes but if there are I hope you’re the special guest for the Lena episode because I know you’ll do an awesome case for her! 🙂
I look forward to hearing your feedback also on the favorites episodes list; I look forward to all of your feedback on all the podcast episodes actually but Favorite Episodes is just the next topic up. Ha.
Touching on the other topic presented in this episode for a moment, what is your feedback for the possible returns of Sam and Mon?
Aaron on July 15, 2020 at 3:14 pm
“What is time? I know it must still exist because sometimes it’s light and then dark and then light again, but it definitely feels different. Is this what it was like for people in the Phantom Zone; a day feels like a month and a month feels like it passes at the speed of hours instead of days? Altered time is getting to me! Ha.”
The Phantom Zone is whatever the writer decides it is, which as far as Derek Simon is concerned, means it is toilet paper, but for the rest of us, is the ghost zone. Different people imagine it in different ways. For me, that is the ennui between moments of terror, that Kryptonians in their myths as DC writers conceive it, call life.
“I’ll be honest, every time you say Selena the first person I think of is Selena Kyle aka Catwoman instead. :)”
Selene Gallio, the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club, for me.
https://www.marvel.com/characters/selene
“Polls!!! ?”
Finns!
“If you liked “Big” you may enjoy the flip take on it that came out a few years ago called “Little” starring Tiffany Haddish; it was really cute!”
Not a fan. Nothing more will be said about “Big”.
“I completely agree John. Clark’s physical arrival to the series wasn’t the thing that brought down the series in quality but it was a factor in my opinion because it made them play even more to the Clark elements rather than Kara. Poor plot handling with Mon, just questionable writing at times and manufactured plots such as Lena and Kara fighting also have played parts in the series feeling not as quality as it was in season one so it’s definitely multiple things that need to be fixed but again Clark’s involvement is one of them; the good news is everything is upgradable if they just do it. Let Kara be who she was in season one – an individual who sometimes will kill a bad guy to stop them when it’s the only way left, a person who made mistakes and admitted it more instead of passing off fault to others…again just because they share DNA and powers doesn’t make Kara Clark! Maybe now that they have a Superman series they’ll be forced to use some Kara comic and animated series plots for “Supergirl” instead of just changing Kara for Clark in Superman stuff; I just hope they don’t dismiss our series because he has one now, I know they’ve done well handling “Flash” as a spin off of “Arrow” but this is my nervous feeling they created by writing Kara like Clark so much, do they remember how to writer her like the individual she was in season one so you have the unique characters they are…I hope so! In a related note: do you think they might switch Clark for Kate and do crossovers with the Superman series more instead of Batwoman now since Kate is not going to be the lead anymore (boo) or do you think they’ll still try to push things with Ryan while occasionally doing crossovers with Clark?”
Ecommendations….
1. Get rid of Derek Simon.
2. Get rid of Tyler Hoechlin.
3. Exile Clark and Lois to Earth Never.
4. Cancel Batwoman. That show is beyond salvage.
5. Get rid of Staz Nair.
6. Hire actual writers.
7. Hire someone who actually knows Otto Binder’s Supergirl. Mike Greene or Sterling Gates, as a hired expert, is a clue for suggested hired expert consultants.
8. Make Lena and Kara a battle couple.
9. Rework Braindead.
10. I do not think it will happen, but retread Mon-El Railroad. Sam and Ruby likewise.
11. Get rid of the Kelly character to clear the deck for 10.
12. Launch the Sam-Alex ship.
““Stargirl” has been good so far; it’s definitely moving up in the rankings for me! I’m not ready to put it over “Supergirl” or anything even with our horrible season 5 but it’s definitely knocking at third on the list for the shows to me. There’s some things I would nitpick for sure like the Courtney/Cameron cliché romance they’re teasing but on the whole “Stargirl” has been a really strong filler series for the DCTV universe and just a fun, good watch week to week.”
Despite my praise for Stargirl, I have some problems with the show. Amy Smart, as Clueless Villain Mom, is underplaying her part and Hour Dude (Cameron Gellman) thinks he is the Fonz and that torques me because it is not necessary to have such easily fixed glitch issues continue ten episodes in.
Meg deLacy as Shiv is really underused. Man; she is a great villain. Also MARVEL should SUE, because Shiv is obviously X-23, Laura Kinney, appearing under an assumed name.
““Batwoman”…this is certainly an example of how the mighty have fallen if you will; I still will never understand why they went Ryan instead of just making this new actress Kate! Yes, Kate is going to look different but again YOU LITERALLY ENDED ON A FACE SWAP PLOT; also we know Ruby left so it’s not like back in the day where you’d see a recast and be asking why that happened, fans told you they don’t care if you explain the switch or not just give us Kate but what do they do – reboot. *shakes head* Yes you might get some familiar elements still such as Mary, Alice and Jacob all have the family plot going and Luke and Mary may still be friends but it’s not going to have the same weight it did in season one. Season two may surprise us all and be good but I don’t think the show will ever be to the hype level it was because when you hear Batwoman you want to see Kate Kane so no her no love level like you could have from fans.”
Because I have seen indications of gross incompetence in the news, concerning the production company’s lack of basic management skill sets regarding crew and actor safety, I would recommend shutdown. I am not a fan of the new show direction either. It indicates a fundamental lack of vision and understanding audience connection with the show.
“LOL to John’s announcer voice; well done sir. :)”
In real life, I sound like an angry gerbil, so I envy John’s announcer voice.
“The Snyder Cut panel is just so people will stop hounding them about the Synder cut of “Justice League” because there will never be a Synder version of the full film, if there was they would have put that out instead but even if you showed what he had done it wouldn’t be a complete film. It’s a nice idea, but I wouldn’t hold my breath over this panel really revealing new physical clips from the film.”
You know how I feel about Derek Simon? Double it for Zack Snyder. What a horrible movie maker.
“YES to calling Chris Mr. Supergirl, no one should scoff at that – it helps pay for the house they’re living in; also it’s facts Melissa is more known than him especially in the DCTV universe. Not to mention how often is a woman referred to as Mrs. Inset Husband’s Name Here so in the interest of equality he can be Mr. Supergirl.”
What is wrong with Mon-el Railroad? I like the pun.
““The big over arching storyline in season 3 was the worldkillers…” – was it? I know that’s what it was meant to be but they really did not get the time they should have. 🙁 Sam got a decent amount of time as Reign but the other two were there and gone before we really knew what was happening. This is where I blame Mon and the Legion because you had so many new characters that season one bringing in just 3 extras with Irma and Brainy and Mon but then they wasted time with the Mon/Kara drama and so we only got half of what we should have with the worldkillers I feel and that’s a bummer because they were pretty interesting in what they were and how they could challenge the team.”
Characters overflowing and muddled story seem to be Supergirl show writing characteristics. Add the social messaging interweaved and you get 90% of the show problems. I like social messaging done well, but it has to be scaffolded onto the simple direct story and a tight nuclear cast of characters.
“Well Lena did ALMOST everything she could, she was pretty against bringing in Alex for some reason despite Sam multiple times saying she wanted Alex involved so that was Lena’s bad; I still don’t get why they did this writing wise, it would have given us Lena-Alex time which could have set up an interesting dynamic in future seasons and it would have played to Agent Arias fans by giving Sam and Alex time together. It was just weird how much Sam said she wanted Alex in those episodes but they never show Alex in them working with Lena.”
The triangle, Alex, Lena and Sam writes itself. Drop Kara in and you have a four-fold royal rumble.
“…when Romacon actually got his act together…” LLOOOLL!!! Let Leviathan go.”
Rhama Khant-shamalongadingdong needs a quick death.
“WOW, I can just feel how much William has effected Mon in that scene you played because while I was very much still “BYE Mon!” when he was talking I didn’t have as strong an urge to punch him in the face as he talked this time. This by no means means I want Mon back on the series, but it just shows how bad William was to pull this off! “Cringey cute?” – NO Justina!”
Staz Nair has GOT TO GO. Let him die from Kara kauterizing as previously suggested.
“Odette Annabelle is the MVP of season 3, let’s just call her what she is; while not alone in her awesome performance she is definitely the reason people talk about season 3 still I think. Sam was so intriguing and Reign was such a challenge for the team and Odette played them both so well it was like having season one quality back and we all just loved it! Again I am all for Odie and Sam coming back!”
I want the sam-Alex ship launched.
“Sam 100% still has her powers, the woman is biologically Kryptonian! The crazy comic book part was the writers thinking they could make the plot work saying she changed into a full human post Reign lock up; Reign by their own cannon was an enhanced Kryptonian so even if you strip the enhanced portion of her DNA that still leaves her core Kryptonian DNA side and so like Kara and Clark and every other Kryptonian who’s been on Earth for at least a month she would have powers! In fact, that’s how you get her back into the show – she’s showing signs of powers and she’s scared it’s Reign so she goes back to Lena and Alex for help but they can’t help her this time beyond building her Kryptonite bracelets to down power her strength which she can wear always because powers come with her DNA on Earth. They can craft her some red sun light bulbs to use at home too but Sam has powers as long as she’s on Earth or anywhere with a yellow sun!”
Magic sucks as a plot device. Comic book science can almost be as bad. If you want my opinion as to how to fix Sam’s muddled power set, then I refer you to Mike Greene and Mike Johnson WHO INVENTED REIGN.
Reign was a test tube monkey turned into a proto-hominid world killer by Zor-el as a test case to prove concept before he enhanced his own daughter, Kara, the same way.
In the show context, make her a Kryptonian who was enhanced the same way, was rocketed off, and use THAT as the actual origin story, instead of the Three MacBeth witches conjuring up WKs from errant innocent humans by some mumbo-jumbo pot plot stirring.
“The DEO is gone” – NO John!”
Yes, John. Prune the show.
“Lena and James was never going to work for me personally because of how James acted towards her in season two; until they had a season of him admitting not all Luthors are evil I was never going to buy that. Could they have been cute if James wasn’t so anti Luthor? Sure. Did that relationship ever work for me? No.”
I wanted Lucy Lane and Superwoman. Did I get WONK? No. Will I ever get WONK? No. So, goodbye Mehcad. At least you will not be shafted anymore as you were in this show.
“K Vox. :)”
Woof. Woof.
“Proud Katie alum. ? 🙂
Hopefully season six holds better writing and more in depth character work!”
Get rid of Derek Simon and you might have a chance.
Monty
*sigh* Hiatus podcast episode round two, still no K Vox photo at the end of the blog post. 🙁
“Stargirl” “Brainwave” (TV Episode 2020) (109)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Tamra Davis
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Colleen McGuinness … (story written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Jake Austin Walker … Henry King Jr. / Braindead Jr.
Hunter Sansone … Cameron Mahkent / Icicle II
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle I
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / Clueless Villain Mom
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dragon King
Mark Ashworth Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sportsmaster
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigress
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin (as Hina Khan) / Virtuosa
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Icicle’s Dad
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Icicle’s Mom
John Crow … Mr. Green
Wes Jetton … Nurse
Tim Peek … Old Man
Sean Michael Gloria … Mugger
CC Castillo … Mercedes
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Sharon Frank … Old Woman (uncredited)
Review: Sometimes I look at an episode a couple of times just to see if there is anything I miss or under emphasize when I do an analysis thing. After viewing “Brainwave” a couple of times, I can safely write that I have a good basic grasp on the story frame, the acting standouts, the directing technique, the writing plans, what I like and what I did not like.
Tamra Davis, the director, did not have to stage fight set pieces or conduct staging for more than minimal stunting. I think perhaps that Yvette Monreal had to jump around maybe 15 seconds in her cat suit and that was it. I did not like the final edited cut because I think a couple of scenes were sequenced out of order and this interrupted the story flow especially with Braindead Sr. (BDS) and Braindead Jr. (BDJ) On the other hand, the sound track overlays when BDJ reads thoughts is well done. The lighting was very good and the set dressing was kind of above average, even for this show. The people in Atlanta, who are the production crew have not developed a case of just don’t care syndrome, yet. They take pride in this show.
Colleen McGuiness is a name I will watch from here on in. The script was coherent, simple, tight, character centered and actually stood or fell on the performances of Jake Austin Walker, Brec Bassinger, Neil Jackson, Christopher James Baker, but especially Luke Wilson. Each acted their chunk of the story quite well. If one of them had failed to carry his or her part, the result would have been a puzzle with a glaring piece gone.
The lawyer died… well.
Takeaways.
a. Icicle sure has not learned to mask his ability to touch hot objects and not be revealed for who and what he is.
b. Nazis are Norwegians now?
c. If one got a Thor and Loki vibe from dinner that is no accident. Mix in the usual “View to a Kill” beats and I thought Jason Aaron, the longtime writer of Thor for MARVEL ™ might have been a script consultant for the dinner scenes at the Dugan/Whitmore house.
d. Sir Justin suffers from amnesia. But what has the cosmic rod to do with it?
e. Shiv is a DIRECT RIPOFF of X-23. Cindy Burman is a beat for beat duplicate of Laura Kinney, right down to killing her own mother. That is an origin story beat; along with some mad scientist who turns his own child into a crazed psychotic killer. This is not the Shiv of the DC comics. She did not extrude blades or claws.
f. Braindead Jr. did a superman sick move. Like dad, he apparently killed the first threat he faced, the lawyer, who was a danger to his life in a way… or DID HE? It was mighty convenient for BDS to wake up just as the lawyer croaked the exact same way the mugger did. This is the kind of Geoff Johns fake-out that the audience should always be aware could happen.
I will have Shiv Part II at some point.
Rate it: 5/5/5 out of 5/5/5.
Monty
“Cancel Batwoman. That show is beyond salvage.” – hasn’t it been already? True technically it’s coming back but it’s not “Batwoman” in anything but name and even that is insulting because again you hear “Batwoman” you think Kate Kane. Doing “Batwoman” without Kate in the cowl would be like doing “Batman” but it’s Dick Grayson in the suit…actually it’s worse because at least Dick was Robin so there’s some stretch to have him take over but “Ryan” is just a complete newbie.
There’s just so many issues with this reboot!
Why would a Gothamite trust the batsuit anymore? Really, think about it as they said Bruce left for years so Batman abandoned them and now Batwoman will be gone for months and she should act different when she returns – why would they champion the Bats at that point? I doubt they’ll make things harder on Ryan but they should be public wise because again why should they trust bat suits given how much they’ve been bailing on the city lately?!
Here’s a question: is Ryan going to be Jewish because if not, what the crap? We only have two Jewish characters in the DCTV universe and one of them isn’t in a show anymore; this was an aspect we don’t see much so to have it showcased was new and interesting…is Ryan even going to be religious? Her character description doesn’t sound like it, they seem more into that plant she has than anything else; look I’m not into having religious ideals shoved into my face but being Jewish is one of the things that made Kate stand out because there’s so few Jewish characters in the comics so if that’s gone it’s just another Batwoman element gone and again if all you have left is the suit honestly how can you even call yourself “Batwoman”? The only thing Ryan and Kate seem to have in common is they’re queer.
What’s going to happen with the suit…is Ryan just going to basically put on Kate’s suit because again that feels very much like you’re there to replace Kate instead of hold things down for her; Dries says she loves Kate but her actions are suggesting otherwise. And it’s really a lose-lose situation when you think about it because either the suit stays the same for budget reasons and again you turn off fans because it just pushes even more the replacement of Kate instead of honoring her and leaves people feeling like you care more about the Bat playground if you will than Batwoman the character or you do change the suit and again why are then still calling the show “Batwoman”. This is not like Batgirl where different people wore the cowl but there is the popular wearer of Barbara Gordon only Kate Kane is Batwoman so to have someone new in the suit and that reasoning for it being just because you didn’t want to recast…as you said Monty just let “Batwoman” have it’s one season and do another show using the characters because you’re still basing things in Gotham.
Alice can still be a villain although her weight will be severely impacted without the family connection, the Crows can still be anti vigilante, and Mary and Luke can be friends with the new suit. If you think though the emotional side will still be there you’re crazy because so much relied on the family connections and those don’t exist without Kate. They might have new bonds but it won’t be the same as season one and you can still do crossovers with us but you now have to spend time rebuilding everything because this isn’t Kate; the reboot makes NO SENSE!
The description they provide for Ryan Wilder is more Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler or a new version of Catwoman than Kate Kane so why not just do a Spoiler show? Yes in the comics Stephanie is a white girl with blonde hair but Stephanie also became a Robin so if you wanted you could say Ryan took Stephanie’s Spoiler mantle and is stepping into Kate’s place instead and you call the show “Spoiler” or you know Stephanie just looks different on the show! That’s something else the series could have done – have “Ryan Wilder” be Stephanie Brown instead in the reports and so it’s Steph taking over for Kate because then at least there’s the Bat family connection. It would still be asking for some trouble as Kate Kane is Batwoman but I thin it honestly would have gone down better than this all has so far.
UGH as we’ve all said “Batwoman” is just a mess now.
“Get rid of Staz Nair.” – ? If this dude is back in season six just get ready for ragey feedback again fellow fans; also the same goes for Lex and Leviathan because I am so over them. Ship Lex to Superman’s show and give us back Maxwell Lord or just leave our evil Luthor as Lillian (oh man…the Kryptonite being the only thing to hurt the Batsuit plot is so ridiculous but could you imagine a crossover moment featuring Lillian giving Alice some stock? That would be some good villain stuff there!) and as for Leviathan – let it go, if ever a plot deserved to be forgotten it’s them and William.
“Hire actual writers.” – counter proposal: just bring back the season one staff! At least as many who are legally allowed back because I don’t see Andrew coming back. If you need a new showrunner or a co-showrunner for some reason a Caitlin Parrish!
NO to Mon returning; let Chris be Adam Foster and being that plot back for some fun! It’s a win-win for everyone as the fans get Adam, Chris gets to work, and Melissa gets Chris around for some time! I will agree though of course that Sam (played by Odie) needs to come back!
“Get rid of the Kelly character to clear the deck for 10.” – I feel so bad for Azie because she tried, she did her part to make Kelly charming but they just did such poor work with her in season five I wouldn’t be sad if Kelly wasn’t in the next season. I stand by my statement of you could have replaced Kelly Olsen with any extra of the week in season five and nothing would have changed in that season. Instead of writing to the character they’ve taken the character and wrote her to fit the plots as needed; season four Kelly was this refreshing concept of a shrink but season five Kelly was a computer programmer who seemed really bad at her job honestly half the time and when she wasn’t working she was just making heart eyes at her girlfriend and there was just nothing to cheer for unlike season four where you wanted to see her help these characters and if nothing else she helped James some so it allowed his character to leave in a better place that he would have with how they wrote to him in every season since doing the Guardian plot. And oh my gosh that’s another – DO NOT put Kelly in the suit!!! Not everyone has to be out in the field to contribute to the team writers! It’s bad enough she even busted out the shield but if they increase that in the next season then I feel six will be a repeat of five and that will definitely knock our rankings down on best of the DCTV list.
I want to see season four Kelly return and we see a proper season plot for her as the individual she is, not just James’s sister or Alex’s girlfriend, but if that’s not going to happen then sadly I agree let Kelly go while she still has at least some dignity to her time on the show.
“Launch the Sam/Alex ship.” – this and an Eliza/J’onn ship I cannot support enough! There was definite eye flirting in that lollipop scene from Sam; Sam has a kid so there’s mom Alex plot for that when they want to go to it, Sam already has a plot which gives her more to do than just being someone’s girlfriend, and it just feels like an organic progression from season three and some of the vibes that got teased during it. I am already groaning some though because I can already see the big issue of this happening and that is in order to make Sam/Alex happen you’d have to end Alex/Kelly and that just brings back up all the Kara/James breakup issues; it’s unfair yes but this is the problem with doing an Olsen and Danvers romance, it was always going to have a vibe of making up for Kara/James, maybe that’s just me but that’s how Kelly/Alex feels in part because it kind of happened so fast. Yes it’s believable that they might hook up by themselves but the fact it can also double as an apology for James/Kara isn’t a crazy concept I would argue.
I don’t like love triangles because they are rarely written well so I wouldn’t want to see that either with this group. It would just be a mess if Kelly and Alex broke up after only a year together. Even if you came into the series later on so you don’t remember the actual Danolsen drama there’s no reason right now Alex would break up with Kelly or Kelly break up with her so a split would be manufactured and manufactured plots aren’t cool either. If Sam/Alex happens it would have to be more a season 7 or 8 plot just to give Kelly/Alex justice but yeah as much as I want to see Sam/Alex I don’t see them going there in season six.
“Meg deLacy as Shiv is really underused.” – that is the Alice of their series because that girl is so stealing scenes when she shows up! As for her being under used…I want to see all of season one before I comment on this because I can agree to a point currently but if she’s heavily featured in the remaining episodes then her being light at the start balances out. Regardless of how much screen time she ends up with she has become a highlight for sure on the show. The X-23 comment is totally fair!
“I am not a fan of the new show direction either. It indicates a fundamental lack of vision and understanding audience connection with the show.” – the continued push to use the name but not the lead character to me cements the theory they’re more into the Batman imagery than honoring Kate Kane as Caroline Dries claims she wants to do; given they have access to the name use of Bruce Wayne I’m kind of surprised they didn’t just do a Batman show in place of it and have “Batwoman” be one season. Sometimes I really do think they want to do Batman V Superman and they were just going to use Kara and Kate to pull off their version of it despite the girls not being their cousins and how you could use them to show the different side of that dynamic!
It’s like Lena and Kara, you could have shown them working together to stop Lex and help Clark with something because they don’t feel the same way about each other as the boys do but what have we got instead – a fighting plot that’s come out of a manufactured fight from 2 years again because they want to do Lex-Clark but didn’t have Lex yet. It’s reasons like this I’m concerned in part for season six the more I think about it because now that Clark has his own show surely they’re going to use the material they swap Kara in his place for for his show with Lois and so are they going to finally start using Supergirl comic and animated adventures plots for “Supergirl” and remember how to write her like they did in season one as a unique character who has similar powers or will they put in their B effort now because they have the main known Super on a series and it’s easier to write to him given all the material out there versus doing new stuff with Kara or doing alternate takes on his stuff because she has a different POV because that requires in depth character writing and they haven’t been consistently doing that for years?
As for the safety concerns Monty, I’m sure they don’t want anymore bad or in regards to that so they’ll tighten things up.
“The triangle, Alex, Lena and Sam writes itself.” – honestly, I did considered Alex/Lena in season two (I thought it would be interesting to see Maggie help Alex come out and then go to Gotham to be with Kate but then it became clear they were going Maggie/Alex which was watchable for sure but I only went into 70% at most because the shadow of Kate Kane looms large with Maggie Sawyer – a Maggie/Kate meeting Alex scene is something else we’ll never get now with “Batwoman” :() and how well you could do with that just for the Kara connections alone because what do you do when your sister and best friend are dating and have a fight – who’s side would she take? She loves Alex but if Lena is right would she side with her or pick Alex and apologize to Lena later? There was also back in season two the unknown of Lena for Alex and give her last name would she date her or not and you could have done with her the exploitation of not judging Lena by her name which they failed to execute with James who instead went from hardcore hating Lena to still hating Lena at times because of her last name but just not as openly saying it because she’s hot. You also have science they could bond over…Alex/Lena is still a possibility but I want to see Sam/Alex first. 🙂 I can’t get into the idea of Kara/Lena because I see them keeping her as an ally only on the show; if Kara was queer would it be an interesting pairing, yes but I don’t see them revealing her as queer.
If they want another queer title character, it’s always important to include title in this as Sara Lance deserves respect for being the first queer lead of a series (Legends started before Alex came out if I remember correct and even Legends aside you could argue she was a lead in “Arrow” when on, but she’s never been the title character in those instances…yes she leases Legends but the show isn’t called Sara or White Canary so; then “Black Lightening” came but even still Anissa is not the title character so really “Batwoman” is the only queer title character so far in the DCTV universe), they can have Courtney Whitmore be bisexual! WildStar (Courtney/Yolanda) has SERIOUS chemistry they could easily cash in on! If you’re into the enemies to lovers trope there’s Courtney/Cindy although that will take some time seeing as how Cindy just tried to murder her without a second thought. Ha.
?Y’all need to stop, the DEO is fine; the desert base is run by Vasquez so it’s still operational and Lena is going to rebuild the city one because we deserve a full season of director Alex Danvers. It’s been SIX YEARS where is that pay off?! No season four doesn’t count because Haley was her boss just like Lex was it in season five and J’onn has been every other year I mean actually full on head like J’onn got to be seasons 1-3!
As for you “Stargirl” recap…
“Icicle sure has not learned to mask his ability to touch hot objects and not be revealed for who and what he is.” – I chalked this up to he doesn’t know who Pat and Courtney are yet so he just sees them as people he could easily take out if the need arises; also I’m sure he has some story up his sleeve about no feelings in his fingers because of some accident in case someone does ask so he doesn’t worry about it and thus Courtney could use it to see who he is since the end of the season is coming and she’s got to start learning who bad guys are just as they’ll start putting names to the team in the next few episodes I’m sure.
Shiv from the comics is also more known from what I’ve seen for her connection to Black Canary not Stargirl; she’s probably the most different so far and I agree the spikes are meh but the acting…again like Rachel playing Alice Meg as Cindy is an attention holder!
Again I agree, I think they’ll use the lawyer dying as a way to try and bring Henry to the ISA but really it will be Sr who killed him or even a combination where Henry was hurting him but Brainwave Sr’s power pushed it over to death so Henry can be a JSA member if he wants. I’m still waiting also for them to reveal to Yolanda he didn’t betray her and then that will probably lead to a will they or won’t they reunite with them (cliché).
Something I hope to see more of in regards to Yolonda is her relationship with her brother as he’s the only family member who cares about her clearly so some more scenes with them could be great. They still have the Green Lantern lantern and the pink pen in play for the new JSA line up so maybe he could bear one of those since Mike Dugan makes a great non powered counterpoint to Courtney and provides a relationship for Barbara she wouldn’t have on the show otherwise since Courtney’s main adult dynamic is with Pat because of his knowledge of being a crime fighter. Honestly if it weren’t for Mike Dugan I would ask why is Barbara on the show beyond the clear romance teasing they’ll do with Icicle even though it won’t happen because of various factors. If anything Barbara may end up on ice ala Mrs. Freeze just minus the disease element although that then in turn presents the question of what comes of Mike Dugan then if he doesn’t play communications lead for the others because the clear focus of Stargirl from what little I’ve seen with the character is the Pat-Courtney dynamic.
Aaron on July 17, 2020 at 3:39 pm
“Cancel Batwoman. That show is beyond salvage.” – hasn’t it been already? True technically it’s coming back but it’s not “Batwoman” in anything but name and even that is insulting because again you hear “Batwoman” you think Kate Kane. Doing “Batwoman” without Kate in the cowl would be like doing “Batman” but it’s Dick Grayson in the suit…actually it’s worse because at least Dick was Robin so there’s some stretch to have him take over but “Ryan” is just a complete newbie.”
I wish I had a good answer. This is how I see it.
First, I still maintain that first principles of knowing how to do things is the first requirement. If you cannot do your job safely, or even guarantee the safety of your workers who are trying, then you SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN. This is industrial standards and practices 101.
And then there is the problem with “not knowing how to shoot a show”.
I see too many incompetencies, so shut it down. People are having careers ruined and are being hurt in multiple physical, mental and emotional ways, not to mention that the audience is being ignored and insulted.
Add Batwoman to the detritus that is Star Wars, Star Trek and any Zack Snyder projects.
“There’s just so many issues with this reboot!”
See my previous remarks.
“Why would a Gothamite trust the batsuit anymore? Really, think about it as they said Bruce left for years so Batman abandoned them and now Batwoman will be gone for months and she should act different when she returns – why would they champion the Bats at that point? I doubt they’ll make things harder on Ryan but they should be public wise because again why should they trust bat suits given how much they’ve been bailing on the city lately?!”
How about the audience?
“Here’s a question: is Ryan going to be Jewish because if not, what the crap? We only have two Jewish characters in the DCTV universe and one of them isn’t in a show anymore; this was an aspect we don’t see much so to have it showcased was new and interesting…is Ryan even going to be religious? Her character description doesn’t sound like it, they seem more into that plant she has than anything else; look I’m not into having religious ideals shoved into my face but being Jewish is one of the things that made Kate stand out because there’s so few Jewish characters in the comics so if that’s gone it’s just another Batwoman element gone and again if all you have left is the suit honestly how can you even call yourself “Batwoman”? The only thing Ryan and Kate seem to have in common is they’re queer.”
If you hate the character or the concept you are asked to present and you have the secret desire to impose your own desires and personal interpretations on it, then you are going to make your vision the central driver, and hang what the audience wants or will accept. This is “political” artistic interpretation and CAN be justified if the “artist” is aware of HOW and WHY the material he or she plans to alter, got to be that way originally and knows HOW to make the changes. That is he or she is professionally competent and is genuinely trained in the classic techniques of the medium. The examples I choose are
a. Rian Johnson, who being incompetent and arrogant RUINED Star Wars with his trash movie, “The Last Jedi”. Yeah Luke and Han are trashed and Leah is ruined, too, for his nihilist vision. Okay, but don’t be so incompetent when you finger-paint the narcissistic Spenglerian vision, you enormous Richard. Lucas You ain’t.
b. Seth Meyers, a genius, who loved Star Trek, gave us Kirk in socialist utopian clothing, and you know what? He pulled it off, because he knows the material, knows the art, knows the audience and knows how to make it about the message, the art, and the audience and takes his egotism and PARKS it, unselfishly letting the message, the art and the people who work with him have the glory and the audience ENJOY the ride.
You think incompetents who wrecked Doctor Who, Star Trek, Fatman and Stupor Man, Dawn of Just Us, or the balm brained bunch who hated Kate Kane and decided to Bat Gerbil her, who never cared about the character’s lesbianism, or her religion or humanity but wanted to foist whatever the hello it was they thought they were doing? Nope. If they don’t want to play the game by the rules of good production, writing, acting , entertainment and or they want to ram their talentless muddy moral-less vision down the audiences’ throats, I say let the bones roll and let them be cancelled.
“What’s going to happen with the suit…is Ryan just going to basically put on Kate’s suit because again that feels very much like you’re there to replace Kate instead of hold things down for her; Dries says she loves Kate but her actions are suggesting otherwise. And it’s really a lose-lose situation when you think about it because either the suit stays the same for budget reasons and again you turn off fans because it just pushes even more the replacement of Kate instead of honoring her and leaves people feeling like you care more about the Bat playground if you will than Batwoman the character or you do change the suit and again why are then still calling the show “Batwoman”. This is not like Batgirl where different people wore the cowl but there is the popular wearer of Barbara Gordon only Kate Kane is Batwoman so to have someone new in the suit and that reasoning for it being just because you didn’t want to recast…as you said Monty just let “Batwoman” have it’s one season and do another show using the characters because you’re still basing things in Gotham.”
Now you get it. It isn’t about the show or the audience or the character or what is good or even interpretetive. It is about Mes. Dries’ EGO.
“Alice can still be a villain although her weight will be severely impacted without the family connection, the Crows can still be anti vigilante, and Mary and Luke can be friends with the new suit. If you think though the emotional side will still be there you’re crazy because so much relied on the family connections and those don’t exist without Kate. They might have new bonds but it won’t be the same as season one and you can still do crossovers with us but you now have to spend time rebuilding everything because this isn’t Kate; the reboot makes NO SENSE!”
IBID.
“The description they provide for Ryan Wilder is more Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler or a new version of Catwoman than Kate Kane so why not just do a Spoiler show? Yes in the comics Stephanie is a white girl with blonde hair but Stephanie also became a Robin so if you wanted you could say Ryan took Stephanie’s Spoiler mantle and is stepping into Kate’s place instead and you call the show “Spoiler” or you know Stephanie just looks different on the show! That’s something else the series could have done – have “Ryan Wilder” be Stephanie Brown instead in the reports and so it’s Steph taking over for Kate because then at least there’s the Bat family connection. It would still be asking for some trouble as Kate Kane is Batwoman but I thin it honestly would have gone down better than this all has so far.”
Hey, I love Stephanie Brown and Selene Kyle. You missed it, Aaron, the reboot is more HARLEY QUINN.
“UGH as we’ve all said “Batwoman” is just a mess now.”
Yup.
““Get rid of Staz Nair.” – ? If this dude is back in season six just get ready for ragey feedback again fellow fans; also the same goes for Lex and Leviathan because I am so over them. Ship Lex to Superman’s show and give us back Maxwell Lord or just leave our evil Luthor as Lillian (oh man…the Kryptonite being the only thing to hurt the Batsuit plot is so ridiculous but could you imagine a crossover moment featuring Lillian giving Alice some stock? That would be some good villain stuff there!) and as for Leviathan – let it go, if ever a plot deserved to be forgotten it’s them and William.”
Hey, bring Alice over to Supergirl and let her romp. The show needs comedy and she fits right in, since Derek Simon throws darts at the Supergirl plot generator and the bullpen writers are already “Lost in Wanderland” as they trip out on whatever they are smoking to produce the loco illogicus they call scripts.
““Hire actual writers.” – counter proposal: just bring back the season one staff! At least as many who are legally allowed back because I don’t see Andrew coming back. If you need a new showrunner or a co-showrunner for some reason a Caitlin Parrish!”
And change the grade of weed they smoke, cause what they puff is not helping.
“NO to Mon returning; let Chris be Adam Foster and being that plot back for some fun! It’s a win-win for everyone as the fans get Adam, Chris gets to work, and Melissa gets Chris around for some time! I will agree though of course that Sam (played by Odie) needs to come back!”
I gently disagree. No to Adam on all the objections I raised above. He does not fit. Mon-el Railroad does fit.
““Get rid of the Kelly character to clear the deck for 10.” – I feel so bad for Azie because she tried, she did her part to make Kelly charming but they just did such poor work with her in season five I wouldn’t be sad if Kelly wasn’t in the next season. I stand by my statement of you could have replaced Kelly Olsen with any extra of the week in season five and nothing would have changed in that season. Instead of writing to the character they’ve taken the character and wrote her to fit the plots as needed; season four Kelly was this refreshing concept of a shrink but season five Kelly was a computer programmer who seemed really bad at her job honestly half the time and when she wasn’t working she was just making heart eyes at her girlfriend and there was just nothing to cheer for unlike season four where you wanted to see her help these characters and if nothing else she helped James some so it allowed his character to leave in a better place that he would have with how they wrote to him in every season since doing the Guardian plot. And oh my gosh that’s another – DO NOT put Kelly in the suit!!! Not everyone has to be out in the field to contribute to the team writers! It’s bad enough she even busted out the shield but if they increase that in the next season then I feel six will be a repeat of five and that will definitely knock our rankings down on best of the DCTV list.”
Look, I feel about Azie Tasfei, the way I do about Mehcad Brooks. The writers are abusing her and ruining her career. She needs to get out of there for her own sake.
“I want to see season four Kelly return and we see a proper season plot for her as the individual she is, not just James’s sister or Alex’s girlfriend, but if that’s not going to happen then sadly I agree let Kelly go while she still has at least some dignity to her time on the show.”
Liberal ARTS MAJORS should not write SCIENCE! If one is going to write a psychologist, then have a paid consultant proof the script for gaffes and idiocies. Cop shows have cops, and lawyer shows have lawyers to check for this kind of goofery we see on Supergirl, to catch it and fix it. Why does The Flash have Sterling Gates? Because HE is an expert on DC Superheroes. Especially he knows about those who wear the lightning bolt and the “S”. Can we have Mike Greene please? The man is a Supergirl expert.
“Launch the Sam/Alex ship.” – this and an Eliza/J’onn ship I cannot support enough! There was definite eye flirting in that lollipop scene from Sam; Sam has a kid so there’s mom Alex plot for that when they want to go to it, Sam already has a plot which gives her more to do than just being someone’s girlfriend, and it just feels like an organic progression from season three and some of the vibes that got teased during it. I am already groaning some though because I can already see the big issue of this happening and that is in order to make Sam/Alex happen you’d have to end Alex/Kelly and that just brings back up all the Kara/James breakup issues; it’s unfair yes but this is the problem with doing an Olsen and Danvers romance, it was always going to have a vibe of making up for Kara/James, maybe that’s just me but that’s how Kelly/Alex feels in part because it kind of happened so fast. Yes it’s believable that they might hook up by themselves but the fact it can also double as an apology for James/Kara isn’t a crazy concept I would argue.”
So why do you have issues with the menage a quadruple that comes with the ship?
“I don’t like love triangles because they are rarely written well so I wouldn’t want to see that either with this group. It would just be a mess if Kelly and Alex broke up after only a year together. Even if you came into the series later on so you don’t remember the actual Danolsen drama there’s no reason right now Alex would break up with Kelly or Kelly break up with her so a split would be manufactured and manufactured plots aren’t cool either. If Sam/Alex happens it would have to be more a season 7 or 8 plot just to give Kelly/Alex justice but yeah as much as I want to see Sam/Alex I don’t see them going there in season six.”
Since Kellex never worked for me any more than Florianna Lima did, I’ll agree to disagree and drive through.
Now we get to STARGIRL.
“Meg deLacy as Shiv is really underused.” – that is the Alice of their series because that girl is so stealing scenes when she shows up! As for her being under used…I want to see all of season one before I comment on this because I can agree to a point currently but if she’s heavily featured in the remaining episodes then her being light at the start balances out. Regardless of how much screen time she ends up with she has become a highlight for sure on the show. The X-23 comment is totally fair!”
Shiv is sharing the same dungeon and is one cell over from Solomon Grundy right now. Her daddy locked her up. Expect Cindy to be lab-ratted by Doctor Ito, Shiv’s father; the exact same way that Zor-El tried to turn Kara into a World Killer in Supergiel Vol. 7. And for the same reason.
More Bat Gerbil
““I am not a fan of the new show direction either. It indicates a fundamental lack of vision and understanding audience connection with the show.” – the continued push to use the name but not the lead character to me cements the theory they’re more into the Batman imagery than honoring Kate Kane as Caroline Dries claims she wants to do; given they have access to the name use of Bruce Wayne I’m kind of surprised they didn’t just do a Batman show in place of it and have “Batwoman” be one season. Sometimes I really do think they want to do Batman V Superman and they were just going to use Kara and Kate to pull off their version of it despite the girls not being their cousins and how you could use them to show the different side of that dynamic!”
If you ever heard of Eddie Berganza, then you have a small idea of what is WRONG with the Bat Gerbil shop at DC now.
“It’s like Lena and Kara, you could have shown them working together to stop Lex and help Clark with something because they don’t feel the same way about each other as the boys do but what have we got instead – a fighting plot that’s come out of a manufactured fight from 2 years again because they want to do Lex-Clark but didn’t have Lex yet. It’s reasons like this I’m concerned in part for season six the more I think about it because now that Clark has his own show surely they’re going to use the material they swap Kara in his place for for his show with Lois and so are they going to finally start using Supergirl comic and animated adventures plots for “Supergirl” and remember how to write her like they did in season one as a unique character who has similar powers or will they put in their B effort now because they have the main known Super on a series and it’s easier to write to him given all the material out there versus doing new stuff with Kara or doing alternate takes on his stuff because she has a different POV because that requires in depth character writing and they haven’t been consistently doing that for years?”
And the same at the Super Shop; both at the comic company and on the TV side. (Cough Ali Adler Cough).
“As for the safety concerns Monty, I’m sure they don’t want anymore bad or in regards to that so they’ll tighten things up.”
But they didn’t, Aaron. After their “star” was injured, they “dropped” a light on an associate producer, after a whole season of safety issues.
““The triangle, Alex, Lena and Sam writes itself.” – honestly, I did considered Alex/Lena in season two (I thought it would be interesting to see Maggie help Alex come out and then go to Gotham to be with Kate but then it became clear they were going Maggie/Alex which was watchable for sure but I only went into 70% at most because the shadow of Kate Kane looms large with Maggie Sawyer – a Maggie/Kate meeting Alex scene is something else we’ll never get now with “Batwoman” :() and how well you could do with that just for the Kara connections alone because what do you do when your sister and best friend are dating and have a fight – who’s side would she take? She loves Alex but if Lena is right would she side with her or pick Alex and apologize to Lena later? There was also back in season two the unknown of Lena for Alex and give her last name would she date her or not and you could have done with her the exploitation of not judging Lena by her name which they failed to execute with James who instead went from hardcore hating Lena to still hating Lena at times because of her last name but just not as openly saying it because she’s hot. You also have science they could bond over…Alex/Lena is still a possibility but I want to see Sam/Alex first. 🙂 I can’t get into the idea of Kara/Lena because I see them keeping her as an ally only on the show; if Kara was queer would it be an interesting pairing, yes but I don’t see them revealing her as queer.”
–I did not think Florianna Lima could act and still think she is a camera calamity.
–Quadrangles work in soap operas and pro-wrestling. It is called a tag team event. Karlen vs Samal.
“If they want another queer title character, it’s always important to include title in this as Sara Lance deserves respect for being the first queer lead of a series (Legends started before Alex came out if I remember correct and even Legends aside you could argue she was a lead in “Arrow” when on, but she’s never been the title character in those instances…yes she leases Legends but the show isn’t called Sara or White Canary so; then “Black Lightening” came but even still Anissa is not the title character so really “Batwoman” is the only queer title character so far in the DCTV universe), they can have Courtney Whitmore be bisexual! WildStar (Courtney/Yolanda) has SERIOUS chemistry they could easily cash in on! If you’re into the enemies to lovers trope there’s Courtney/Cindy although that will take some time seeing as how Cindy just tried to murder her without a second thought. Ha.”
Amen.
“?Y’all need to stop, the DEO is fine; the desert base is run by Vasquez so it’s still operational and Lena is going to rebuild the city one because we deserve a full season of director Alex Danvers. It’s been SIX YEARS where is that pay off?! No season four doesn’t count because Haley was her boss just like Lex was it in season five and J’onn has been every other year I mean actually full on head like J’onn got to be seasons 1-3!”
Season 4 killed the DEO. Just be like “Frozen” and let it go.
“As for you “Stargirl” recap…
“Icicle sure has not learned to mask his ability to touch hot objects and not be revealed for who and what he is.” – I chalked this up to he doesn’t know who Pat and Courtney are yet so he just sees them as people he could easily take out if the need arises; also I’m sure he has some story up his sleeve about no feelings in his fingers because of some accident in case someone does ask so he doesn’t worry about it and thus Courtney could use it to see who he is since the end of the season is coming and she’s got to start learning who bad guys are just as they’ll start putting names to the team in the next few episodes I’m sure.
Shiv from the comics is also more known from what I’ve seen for her connection to Black Canary not Stargirl; she’s probably the most different so far and I agree the spikes are meh but the acting…again like Rachel playing Alice Meg as Cindy is an attention holder!”
You have to think “View to a Kill” and Bond Villain with Icicle. Google Zorn and James Bond. The James Bond movie and book were pure TRASH, but you never forgot Mercy and you never forgot Zorn, his ridiculous plan or that stupid blimp. This IS Stargirl, so far!
“Again I agree, I think they’ll use the lawyer dying as a way to try and bring Henry to the ISA but really it will be Sr who killed him or even a combination where Henry was hurting him but Brainwave Sr’s power pushed it over to death so Henry can be a JSA member if he wants. I’m still waiting also for them to reveal to Yolanda he didn’t betray her and then that will probably lead to a will they or won’t they reunite with them (cliché).”
I don’t know. I’m still wrapping my head around Courtney playing James Bond. I think she’s a love ’em and leave ’em.
“Something I hope to see more of in regards to Yolonda is her relationship with her brother as he’s the only family member who cares about her clearly so some more scenes with them could be great. They still have the Green Lantern lantern and the pink pen in play for the new JSA line up so maybe he could bear one of those since Mike Dugan makes a great non powered counterpoint to Courtney and provides a relationship for Barbara she wouldn’t have on the show otherwise since Courtney’s main adult dynamic is with Pat because of his knowledge of being a crime fighter. Honestly if it weren’t for Mike Dugan I would ask why is Barbara on the show beyond the clear romance teasing they’ll do with Icicle even though it won’t happen because of various factors. If anything Barbara may end up on ice ala Mrs. Freeze just minus the disease element although that then in turn presents the question of what comes of Mike Dugan then if he doesn’t play communications lead for the others because the clear focus of Stargirl from what little I’ve seen with the character is the Pat-Courtney dynamic.”
Amen #2.
Monty
“Season 4 killed the DEO. Just be like “Frozen” and let it go.” – nope, I’m going to be like “Frozen II” and repeat plots; the DEO is fine! 🙂
Aaron on July 18, 2020 at 8:08 am
“Season 4 killed the DEO. Just be like “Frozen” and let it go.” – nope, I’m going to be like “Frozen II” and repeat plots; the DEO is fine! 🙂 ”
I saw Frozen II. That movie is why you do not repeat plots. ;}
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“Stargirl” “Brainwave” (TV Episode 2020) (109)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Tamra Davis
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Colleen McGuinness … (story written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hourman
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Jake Austin Walker … Henry King Jr. / Braindead Jr.
Hunter Sansone … Cameron Mahkent / Icicle II
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore / Clueless Villain Mom
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P..E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dragon King
Mark Ashworth Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / Shining Knight
Neil Hopkins … Lawrence Crock / Sportsmaster
Joy Osmanski … Paula Brooks / Tigress
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin (as Hina Khan) / Virtuosa
Eric Goins … Steven Sharpe / The Gambler
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Icicle’s Dad
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Icicle’s Mom
John Crow … Mr. Green
Wes Jetton … Nurse
Tim Peek … Old Man
Sean Michael Gloria … Mugger
CC Castillo … Mercedes
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Sharon Frank … Old Woman (uncredited)
Review: Sometimes I look at an episode a couple of times just to see if there is anything I miss or under emphasize when I do an anlaysis thing. After viewing “Brainwave” a couple of times, I can safely write that I have a good basic grasp on the story frame, the acting standouts, the directing technique, the writing plans, what I like and what I did not like.
Tamra Davis, the director, did not have to stage fight set pieces or conduct staging for more than minimal stunting. I think perhaps that Yvette Monreal had to jump around maybe 15 seconds in her cat suit and that was it. I did not like the final edited cut because I think a couple of scenes were sequenced out of order and this interrupted the story flow especially with Braindead Sr. (BDS) and Braindead Jr. (BDJ) On the other hand, the sound track overlays when BDJ reads thoughts is well done. The lighting was very good and the set dressing was kind of above average, even for this show. The people in Atlanta, who are the production crew have not developed a case of just don’t care syndrome, yet. They take pride in this show.
Colleen McGuiness is a name I will watch from here on in. The script was coherent, simple, tight, character centered and actually stood or fell on the performances of Jake Austin Walker, Brec Bassinger, Neil Jackson, Christopher James Baker, but especially Luke Wilson. Each acted their chunk of the story quite well. If one of them had failed to carry his or her part, the result would have been a puzzle with a glaring piece gone.
The lawyer died… well.
Takeaways.
a. Icicle sure has not learned to mask his ability to touch hot objects and not be revealed for who and what he is.
b. Nazis are Norwegians now?
c. If one got a Thor and Loki vibe from dinner that is no accident. Mix in the usual “View to a Kill” beats and I thought Jason Aaron, the longtime writer of Thor for MARVEL ™ might have been a script consultant for the dinner scenes at the Dugan/Whitmore house.
d. Sir Justin suffers from amnesia. But what has the cosmic rod to do with it?
e. Shiv is a DIRECT RIPOFF of X-23. Cindy Burman is a beat for beat duplicate of Laura Kinney, right down to killing her own mother. That is an origin story beat; along with some mad scientist who turns his own child into a crazed psychotic killer. This is not the Shiv of the DC comics. She did not extrude blades or claws.
f. Braindead Jr. did a superman sick move. Like dad, he apparently killed the first mortal threat he faced, the lawyer, who threatened his life in a way… or DID HE? It was mighty convenient for BDS to wake up just as the lawyer croaked the exact same way the mugger did. This is the kind of Geoff Johns fake-out that the audience should always be aware could happen.
Rate it: 5/5/5 out of 5/5/5. I LOVE this show.
Monty
Sorry, Aaron, I should explain WHY I think Frozen II did not work for me. It is only fair.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2019/12/02/the-5-biggest-problems-with-frozen-2/#1006c6993261
===================================================
And I screwed up posting the Stargirl review. Monty is a muddle as well as a muggle this Saturday. So “Let’s try again!”
==================================================
Stargirl (TV Series) “Shiv Part Two” (2020)Full Cast & Crew (108)
Directed by Geary McLeod
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Paula Sevenbergen … (written by)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) verified as complete
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl / Clueless
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hourman / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan / Cute Kid Factor
Jake Austin Walker … Henry King Jr. / Braindead Jr.
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv / Psycho-brat
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle Sr. Rotten parent # 1
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore /AKA Clueless Villain Mom.
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / AKA S.T.R.I.P.E. the blue collar mentor-dad.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice) (artificial intelligence in Midnight’s goggles?)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King / Rotten parent #2
Lesa Wilson … Bobbie Burman / Stepford Wife / Fembot
Matt Borlenghi … Ed Reilly / You are not going to believe who will become Firebrand to avenge “daddy”
Firebrand
Firebrand is a legacy name used by flame-wielding super-heroes in the DC Universe. The original was non-powered vigilante Rod Reilly, the son of a wealthy tycoon who fought crime with his servant Slugger Dunn. His sister Danette Reilly is a volcanologist who takes his mantle when she develops pyrokinetic powers. Alex Sanchez became the third Firebrand when philanthropist Noah Hightower put him through experimental surgery. Andre Twist took over for the deceased Sanchez as a rioter during the…
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Phil Armijo … Drone #1 (uncredited)
Charles Fowler … Drone #2 (uncredited)
Review: Lots of nerfing this episode. Paula Servenberger, the writer, obviously, gave us a lot of set pieces that try to advance the story lines forward and create future drama situations, but the important information, we need to take away from the episode, as we travel away from it, is:
a. Courtney and Cindy know each other to the point, where each one understands that Cindy is the far better fighter, and each knows who the other’s ‘gang’ is.
b. Braindead Jr. is a putz.
c. Shiro Ito is a stand-in for this son of a bitch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shir%C5%8D_Ishii
d. Speaking of “Shiro Ito” I would speculate that his drones are:
1. Clones of himself.
2. Humans reprogrammed into slave servitors.
e. My guess is that Lesa Wilson’s character, Bobby Burman, is a partially aware drone that Doctor Ito programmed as Cindy Burman’s baby sitter.
Which brings me to overlooked plot elements that I see as grenades which might have blowback at the end of season 1.
A. Icicle Sr. is after Clueless Villain Mom, Barbara Whitmore, to replace Cameron Mahkent’s mom. This will bring Pat into danger from threat axis A.
B. Bobby Burman, drone or not, has the hots for her “plumber” who is so polite and helpful. This is a danger from the Dragon King on threat axis B. and is comically known as dropping the 20 ton anvil on the coyote just as he runs off the cliff. The joke is overwritten. Icicle is enough for the Pat is obliviously the Ensign Dunsel in distress.
Dunsel
Dunsel was a term used by midshipmen in the 23rd century to describe a part which served no useful purpose. The term was used as an insult (albeit a playful one) to Captain James T. Kirk during the 2268 war games test of the M-5 Multitronic Unit created by Dr. Richard Daystrom. Following the computer’s successful maneuvers, Commodore Bob Wesley called Kirk “Captain Dunsel”, since the M-5’s ultimate goal was to eliminate the need for living captains, thereby rendering Kirk useless.
I mentioned that Braindead Jr. is a putz.
putz
[ˌpəts, ˌpo͝ots]
NOUN
1. NORTH AMERICAN
informal
a stupid or worthless person.
“I’m not some two-bit putz who doesn’t know the difference between Ouzo and Dom Perignon”
synonyms:
idiot · halfwit · nincompoop · blockhead · buffoon · dunce · dolt · ignoramus ·
[more]
VERB
1. NORTH AMERICAN
informal
engage in inconsequential or unproductive activity.
“too much putzing around up there would ruin them”
As the dog says to Foghorn Leghorn; “A smart chicken would shut his yap and figure out the situation instead of moping about his life and running away from it. The putz.”
Speaking of dogs and chickens, how about Pat being the ADULT and having his priorities straight all through this series, even sacrificing that BUICK (no loss, it is GM trash) and giving the childish Cosmic Staff a Pat Dugan morality lesson about being too eager and aggressive and amping Courtney up as it does it? BTW, I CALLED IT. That staff was amping Courtney up and accounts for some of her recklessness. Still does.
I suppose I should mention Hour Dude, Miss Kitty and Goggles do their thing and are the reason that Courtney climbs out of her sickbed to “save them” in a surprise attack on Cindy in her own bedroom. Geary McLeod thoroughly screws up the cell-phone scenes with mistimed screen caps of situational texts that unless the audience has the eyes of a HAWKGIRL, they cannot read off a standard 5×8 ratio format TV screen these days. Fortunately I have a frame freeze monitor function and a brain sharp enough to pluck out such screwed up details as they zip past into a commercial. Sheesh, that was just one of the many horizon line, planar focus and two shot and set shot errors in this episode. Anybody catch Luke Wilson knock that kitchen island off four inches straight UP off the floor and its set marks when he pretended to bang his head crawling out from under the sink when Lesa Wilson played calf tag with him as she flirted with him? They left that goof in when they passed it through post production. HILARIOUS!
As for Shiv and Stargirl, I found it significant that Cindy tells Courtney that they are both alike. The series of scenes where Meg de Lacy plays psycho-brat in need of a frenemy and explains her motivations to Brec Bessinger showed me both the director’s failings and the difference in caliber in actress training. Brec Bessinger played it too straight and Meg de Lacy played it to the knife edge of ridiculous but still believable. The “ewww” factor was heavy handed from Stargirl while Shiv just made it seem like she was that Captain Obvious and did not care.
BTW, since Midnight’s Goggles do the Kelly Thompson detail notice comic book thing, the inventor of Kate Bishop, aka the better Hawkeye, should SUE! Like the cell phone texts, when those were added in post production, the cell insets were screwed up. I had to blow those up, image in image to pick out the clues, which were 90% noise.
Blah action, and blah script.
Rate it… 3/3/3 out of 5/5/5. By Supergirl standards a good episode. By Stargirl standards… average.
Monty
“Frozen II” was a giant CD commercial in my opinion and there’s only like two decent songs on that CD.
“Frozen” is DEFINITELY the better of the two films!
Aaron on July 18, 2020 at 8:38 pm
““Frozen II” was a giant CD commercial in my opinion and there’s only like two decent songs on that CD.
“Frozen” is DEFINITELY the better of the two films!”
Yup.
========================================================
Odds and ends.
1. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Supergirl_Villains
Do not have to retread the Superman villain pool.
a. Vartox
b. Worldkillers.
c. Dark Angel and the Monitors.
d. Blackstarr.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Star
e. Leviathan
f. Fatal Five
g. Her dad.
h. Lesla Lar
i. Reactron
j. Her mom.
k. Toy Man II and crew.
m. and pick out any Bat on any given day for any stupid reason for she has fought all of them.
She has her own unique cadre as rich as varied and as dangerous as Mister Pointy Ears.
I kind of hope she pairs up with Gotham Girl
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Claire_Clover_(Prime_Earth)
and gives the Bruce of her Earth an attitude adjustment. I am not a fan of the Bat at the present time with the Scott Snyder Dark Metal garbage currently running.
2. You want to know about the amplituhedron?
https://sciexplorer.blogspot.com/2015/08/amplituhedron-for-rest-of-us.html
=========================================================
3. Selena (Donnerverse)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Selena_(Donnerverse)
4. Selena (Arrowverse)
https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Selena_(Earth-TUD17)
Which one do “I” prefer?
How about “none of the above”?
5. How about a petition to have Mike Greene hired as a story consultant for Supergirl?
6. Poll suggestion… Which one is a worse Supergirl love interest; “William Day” (Staz Nair) or Ethan (Hart Bochner)?
7. Suggestion for season 6 opener. Working title; “The Wreck of Simon” in which an egotistical writer out to get Supergirl is hunted down by the rest of Team Supergirl after he kidnaps her and sticks her in a plot device. Team Supergirl catches him, rescues her, and packs the evil writer off to the Phantom Zone where he is hence forgotten and never heard from again.
Meet Supergirl’s new love at the end of the episode “Dwayne McDuffie”, who happens to be a …. writer!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwayne_McDuffie
Monty
“6. Poll suggestion…Which one is a worse Supergirl love interest: “William Day” (Staz Nair) or Ethan (Hart Bochner)?”
This is a tough one, but much like with Mon I’m going to have to say the worst is actually William because as problematic as Ethan sounded in the clips at least you can at the very least feel anger towards him where as with William you’re just zzzzzzz, or maybe that’s just me!
Aaron on July 20, 2020 at 4:16 pm
“6. Poll suggestion…Which one is a worse Supergirl love interest: “William Day” (Staz Nair) or Ethan (Hart Bochner)?”
“This is a tough one, but much like with Mon I’m going to have to say the worst is actually William because as problematic as Ethan sounded in the clips at least you can at the very least feel anger towards him where as with William you’re just zzzzzzz, or maybe that’s just me!”
Staz Nair has no ‘Q’ at all? Yeah, I guess that is possible.
https://youtu.be/8ywNgVkI8DY
I do not genuinely think he is a “bad” human being. But; he is a narcissistic prat as he comes through the camera, and he is not too bright in that he does not know at all how he projects himself. He is very superficial in outlook and not reflective, objective about himself, or even empathic of others, all qualities a GOOD actor needs.
And yes, I got that impression of that from only three minutes of his prattle in a self promo video where he tried to present himself as a potential hire for either modeling, acting or writing.
Very negative “Q”. I would be leery of putting him at the sales window of a MacDonald’s because I would be worried that he can interact with people effectively or even make correct change or REMEMBER an order correctly.
Hart Bochner is the tree with zero “Q” (No ability to deliver a line and no camera charisma at all.) but at least you do not get the creepy crawlies when you see him through the camera. Just a “Who hired this piece of wood as a love object?” is the reaction.
Monty
Stargirl (TV Series)”Brainwave Jr.” (2020)
Full Cast & Crew
Directed by Andi Armaganian
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
James Robinson … (written by) (as James Dale Robinson)
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hour Dude
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan / brat
Jake Austin Walker … Henry King Jr. Braindead Jr.
Meg DeLacy … Cindy Burman / Shiv
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent / Icicle
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore aka clueless villain mom.
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Henry Thomas … Chuck (voice)
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King
Kay Galvin … Lily Mahkent / Grandad NAZI
Jim France … Sofus Mahkent / Grandma NAZI
Maria Sager … Maria
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Kyle Jackson Kyle Jackson … Pedestrian (uncredited)
Review: Well… now that James Robinson dropped the BIG ONE and blew up everything I thought was going to happen, it is back to the drawing board for me.
Let us get the stuff I did not like out of the way.
a. Hour Dude’s little story is kind of a mess. So he opens the cage door and Solomon Grundy curb stomps him.
b. I had several friends with me and we watch the episode for details like stunt work, CGI effect, set dressing, lighting and color balancing in post production. We came to a consensus, that it was …. not…. too… good; this time out. I do not know what happened.
c. The Courtney and Clueless Villain Mom Barbara Whitmore interaction came straight from Clichés R’ Us.
d. The stunt work was SLOOOOOW and stagey like theater fighting. It did not have the MMA pacing or viciousness of the Meg deLacy and Brec Bassinger brawl 2 episodes ago. This is in part because of safety concerns with all of the actors in close up in groups shots, having to do their moves in camera plane as well as making sure that someone did NOT get injured because those sticks and props, though rubberized could still poke holes in people. The GOOD part of the stunting was Brec Bassenger. That girl can FIGHT. She was actually brawling at speed with some of the “mooks” and made the viewer believe that this little girl with a spear can kill you.
e. Yolanda Monreal needs to strengthen her core. She looked like a banana hanging off the wires that hoisted in her “leaps”.
f. Anjelika Washington had better amp her “Q” or she will be washed out in scenes with her other costars.
What I liked.
1. James Robinson had one episode only to nuke the season and he did it. Never saw it coming.
2. I do not know who is pushing the “View to a Kill” storyline and is a James Bond fan, but keep it coming! Where is the blimp?
3. Coincidence motivation for revenge. Braindead Jr. and Courtney have three things and one man to kill in common.
4. Google translate will always trip up Nazis.
5. Why is flyover country assumed to be where all the “evil minds” hang out? Incidentally, having BEEN to the Fascist east and Commie west coast, THANK MURPHY for Iowa! Liberals live in the Heartland. Why do you suppose [sshield] was raised in Kansas in comics lore?
6. The Cosmic Staff is ALIVE! It is stupid, but it is alive.
7. Andi Armaganian still manages a good directorial outing despite the production problems I saw.
9. The cast can act even with a James Robinson script.
10. James Robinson was not afraid and HE WROTE A SCRIPT!. What amazes me is how generous Geoff Johns was in letting JR drop the BIG ONE.
11. No matter how dark it becomes, and this show is DARK, Geoff Johns pushes the hope message. Pat and Barbara are the maypole dance this episode that proves that one.
12. When was the last time, Mom, Dad, Kid Brother, and Brat Sister were this heroic?
13. Meg deLacy spent her thirty seconds of comedy gold to perfection. Is there ANYTHING this selfless actress will not do for the show? Good for her.
I want Shiv to break out of her prison cell and work those comedy chops.
But the highlight was the BIG ONE. How many times have I complained about writers who will not pull the trigger?
James Robinson not only fired off that Chekov, but he just about leveled the works.
Now we have to wait for the fallout.
Monty
While Jake did well, “Brainwave Jr.” Is one of my least favorite episodes of the season I have to say because of the ending mainly as it just felt manufactured that Brainwave would kill him like he did; do I believe he would kill Henry if need be? Yes. But the whole one shot of ‘Join me or die’ without even trying to turn him? No. Also they’re wiping out so many people I’m wondering who’s going to be left to face the team in season two! Cindy of course but who else?
I would love to see Artemis join the young JSA for awhile like they wanted to do with Henry because I think that would be fun; she could turn against her parents because she’s mad they killed the coaches to help her in her mind when she feels she could have won things by herself. Also it would prove what a leader she could be over Cindy and if there is a young ISA she should lead it and here’s her resume of work and she just names everyone’s butt she kicked. Ha. She would have to come with her own suit for sure as I don’t see any of the artifacts accepting her because she’s too competitive. 🙂
I enjoy the staff being sassy. 🙂
“Now we have to wait for the fallout.” – I hope that fallout doesn’t include Yolonda moaning over Henry! Be sad a kid died ok and be thankful Henry saved you but I don’t want to see her holding him up suddenly as some misunderstand guy on her part because while he did not sent the text to the school he still shouldn’t have had the photo out looking at it at school so while he did something great here that should dismiss the bad he did from before in her eyes. Yolonda hated Henry until the very end and I hope they remember that otherwise her stuff will become very manufactured and that’s not a good thing to bring into writing! Again she can be sad and want to take down Brainwave still but Brainwave should not become what Grundy is to Rick; she can even say she’s glad Henry was more than she thought but she doesn’t have to be all piney and act like he’s some grand lost love of her life.
Another issue with “Brainwave Jr.”, how is it the cosmic staff can erase 10 years of someone’s life by frying their brain and knock people back but it can’t cut through modern steel? Wildcat’s claws can penetrate brick and slice all kinds of things but modern steel no. Hourman is suppose to be super strong for one hour yet could he bend those bars twice, no. I know they needed a way to kill junior while they watched but that again felt like manufactured plotting and I didn’t like it. I wouldn’t say “Brainwave Jr.” Is the worst episode of the series but it is the most manufactured so far I feel and manufactured plot writing is a dangerous thing to have in your series – see “Supergirl”‘s recent seasons. 🙁
Aaron on July 23, 2020 at 11:57 am
“While Jake did well, “Brainwave Jr.” Is one of my least favorite episodes of the season I have to say because of the ending mainly as it just felt manufactured that Brainwave would kill him like he did; do I believe he would kill Henry if need be? Yes. But the whole one shot of ‘Join me or die’ without even trying to turn him? No. Also they’re wiping out so many people I’m wondering who’s going to be left to face the team in season two! Cindy of course but who else?”
I’ve read that same conclusion here.
https://www.tvfanatic.com/2020/07/stargirl-season-1-episode-10-review-brainwave-jr/
I did not mind the rush job, because I think at the time of production, I suspect the show runners thought they had one season of 13 episodes to get their story told and done. The renewal was never certain. (DC comics politics. Part of the Dan Didio story, but I cannot discuss what I cannot source for you. The Geoff Johns part of this one goes all the way back to the Green Lantern movie debacle. Stargirl is actually John’s proof to the honchos that he knows what he does in film and television, not that The Flash did not also showcase that Green Lantern was not entirely his fault.)
Anyway, I was not convinced Jake Austin Walker was capable of sustaining the character. He might have been written out as a dud. It happens. But as my friend, Achilles, remarked; “It’s comics, Dude. He’ll be back when they need him.
More on that “peculiar” death scene in a bit.
“I would love to see Artemis join the young JSA for awhile like they wanted to do with Henry because I think that would be fun; she could turn against her parents because she’s mad they killed the coaches to help her in her mind when she feels she could have won things by herself. Also it would prove what a leader she could be over Cindy and if there is a young ISA she should lead it and here’s her resume of work and she just names everyone’s butt she kicked. Ha. She would have to come with her own suit for sure as I don’t see any of the artifacts accepting her because she’s too competitive. 🙂 ”
=======================================================
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6002111/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t21
Stella Smith was first seen as Grace Choi (teen) on Black Lightning.
https://arrow.fandom.com/wiki/Grace_Choi
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Grace_Choi_(New_Earth)
Here as Artemis Crock?
My guess is that Tigress is an “Amazon” and therefore, “Artemis” will be so revealed on this “Earth”.
With that aside, i am not convinced that Ms. Smith is anywhere the actress that Ms. deLacy is, from what I have seen of the work each has shown so far. I think I have to respectfully disagree about the Artemis character, Aaron. I just like Meg deLacy much better as she portrays Shiv. Your mileage should vary on this one, because each person brings her or his own tastes to what is seen and liked.
“I enjoy the staff being sassy. 🙂 ”
If the staff kayoed Justin the janitor (As I now strongly suspect.) as it did Braindead Sr., then the staff is not just sassy, it is wildly dangerous. Remember, the staff blew up braindead Jr.’s car without Courtney ever intending that act. This leads me to wonder if Sylvester Pemberton was involved in some way, too. From the comics, “Skyman” was an arrogant JERK, who would do such a thing if he was “crossed”.
” “Now we have to wait for the fallout.” – I hope that fallout doesn’t include Yolonda moaning over Henry! Be sad a kid died ok and be thankful Henry saved you but I don’t want to see her holding him up suddenly as some misunderstand guy on her part because while he did not sent the text to the school he still shouldn’t have had the photo out looking at it at school so while he did something great here that should dismiss the bad he did from before in her eyes. Yolonda hated Henry until the very end and I hope they remember that otherwise her stuff will become very manufactured and that’s not a good thing to bring into writing! Again she can be sad and want to take down Brainwave still but Brainwave should not become what Grundy is to Rick; she can even say she’s glad Henry was more than she thought but she doesn’t have to be all piney and act like he’s some grand lost love of her life.”
Again, I am not concerned as much about this possible development because the show is not “Wildcat”. Does the cliché bother me at all? Yes; it does, due to the lazy writing it would seem to imply, but do I feel it could be explored in a new way? To show that a teenage girl victimizes herself when she forgets the core act that made her hate “her first love” in the first place? The process of adult acceptance and measured remembrance: “I forgive, but I can never minimize or forget the harm that you did me, or forget that you can do it again to someone else.”; that exploration of cautioned trust with the “caveat of but”, is worthy of exploration. Whether a writer less talented than Johns can pull that one off, or Yvette Monreal can carry out the acting assignment in a subplot only one or two episodes allotted? I dunno. What I see; suggests, “Too ambitious.”
“Aaron on July 23, 2020 at 1:21 pm
Another issue with “Brainwave Jr.”, how is it the cosmic staff can erase 10 years of someone’s life by frying their brain and knock people back but it can’t cut through modern steel? Wildcat’s claws can penetrate brick and slice all kinds of things but modern steel no. Hourman is suppose to be super strong for one hour yet could he bend those bars twice, no. I know they needed a way to kill junior while they watched but that again felt like manufactured plotting and I didn’t like it. I wouldn’t say “Brainwave Jr.” Is the worst episode of the series but it is the most manufactured so far I feel and manufactured plot writing is a dangerous thing to have in your series – see “Supergirl”‘s recent seasons. 🙁 ”
The death scene is problematic. The short “rationalization” is that Braindead Sr. somehow neutralized the optimum performance of our Junior JSA. Another rationalization is that we have a “realistic” representation of superhero limits. Another conjecture is that these are kids, who do not know how to work together to remove a problem. For example, the Cosmic Staff survived an explosive charge and super-cold. Those iron bars if made of Pittsburgh Steel (100 HY hull metal used on US submarines; would be able to slam a 8000 tonne boat at 45 km/h into a mountain and survive.) SHOULD be able to thwart even Clark Kent as portrayed by Tyler Hoechlin. Such steel in bars should be able to thwart Hour Dude who wasted his hour of power on trying to break the door to Solomon Grundy’s cell. Yeah, Hour Dude wasted his strength on a stupid childish urge to revenge. That is not adult judgement example #1.
The COSMIC STAFF was subjected to explosive and super-cold and it remained not only operative but showed material properties that suggests it could be used as a wrecking bar.
Therefore; Courtney, Yolanda, Rick, and Beth could team up with it; to bend those bars. Yet, neither Courtney or Rick, or the others stopped to think LIKE I WOULD. Use the STAFF as a pry bar and a LEVER. Example #2.
Children… NOT adults… so they fail.
Monty
Just as an addenda to Braindead Jr’s death scene: if the childish behavior and thinking is what was supposed to be inferred from the direction, writing and staged actions, then this show really rates highly. If the perceived and inferred conclusions are accidental, then the show still rates highly for such “accidentals” in the action, direction and written story. ? Some shows hit that shorthand fill-in-the-blanks writing style that allows for such audience participation and feedback with their own feedback. Batwoman did not and does not do this well. Supergirl is hit and miss as to this quality. The Flash sets out with this goal as a deliberate writing policy. And with Black Lightning, it actually forms the core of their teching mantra to force the audience to reach side-bar conclusions as lessons learned.
Stargirl has gone out of its way to show mentor-ship and the sharp divide between the “adult” and the “child”.
It comes as no surprise to me, for example, that Tigress and Sports Dude are “childish” in their emotionalism (Whacking coaches who try to adultify their daughter) and that Artemis sort has learned her own “childish” behavior as a consequence. Someone gives you a slam-down on the playing field in sport or embarrasses you in front of the team in a power display and bigot’s attitude? The “child” punches the jerk. The “adult” waits for the next scrimmage play and delivers a bullet of a pass in the context of that scrimmage to the jerk’s face knocking him off his feet and out for the ten count. She shows the team, and her coach, by means of her cold deliberate skill, and not impulsive anger, that she knows how to “take care of business” on the field of play DURING THAT PLAY. Those are writers’ choices I see displayed for the Artemis Crock character.
Hour Dude is another example. One could write that Rick Tyler in the Brainwave Jr. episode could actually listen to Beth Chapel as she Bat Gerbil’s wisdom to “Strong Guy” and makes him conserve his power for contingencies. But he has to pry at that door with all of his strength and waste his hour of power. He does not pause to think of what the door is designed to STOP, and what it could mean for him and his friends if he releases it. Never mind that Rick ignores Beth’s good advice… to stick to the plan.
Then we have Courtney and Pat as the primary adult-child mentoring lesson being taught. Courtney is still a long way from understanding Pat or his lessons about prudence, planning, honesty, judicious caution and LEADERSHIP. It has not sunk in yet.
I would invite a comparison with ICICLE, his grandparents and his own son. As evil as he is, Jordon Mahkent, the character, is a measured and mature adult who leads his near-peers (Dragon King defers to him and no-one else. So is the case with Braindead Sr., who defers to mahkent.), dominates the children (Sportsmaster and Tigress.) and cooperates with co-belligerents around him. (The Gambler.). With his own son, Jordan actually shows patriarchal qualities in the good way that mirror Pat and Courtney’s relationship. Yet, for all his adultness in outlook and behavior, we still have the ideological embracement of evil which in this his mature adult configuration, makes him far more dangerous than any other ISA villain.
To that extent, Stargirl rises above the usual super-hero show in that the themes make the audience THINK at least two layers deeper than what is superficially seen.
Monty.
“It’s comics, Dude. He’ll be back when they need him.” – they better not bring back any dead characters or else like “Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.” death will become more of a joke on the series than a believable plot and that’s when your drama level goes well down which is bad. If they’re some zombie experiment of Ito’s before Cindy kills him then okay maybe but no brining them back actually because it really just cheapens death and drama so fast in my opinion for series and that’s not good.
Oh I’m sure the staff has a vengeful side and Courtney may even have a moment where she has to try and corral it (she may or may not succeed), I just mean I like it having a personality of it’s own instead of just being a stick. 🙂
I can definitely get Rick’s power dropping g because of time but the staff should have melted those bars and even if you say it was less powerful from all it went through Yolonda’s claws don’t have limits like that so it should have messed up the steel and what they couldn’t cut the staff should have finished off. I get they needed Junior to die but I just feel they could have executed that scene a bit better and thus avoided this arguably nitpick.
Aaron on July 25, 2020 at 4:17 pm
” “It’s comics, Dude. He’ll be back when they need him.” – they better not bring back any dead characters or else like “Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.” death will become more of a joke on the series than a believable plot and that’s when your drama level goes well down which is bad. If they’re some zombie experiment of Ito’s before Cindy kills him then okay maybe but no brining them back actually because it really just cheapens death and drama so fast in my opinion for series and that’s not good.”
Sarah Lance was Lazarus Pitted on “Arrow” and now Caity Lotz headlines “Legends of Tomorrow” though she is on furlough for a chunk of this and next season. If she was not comic book resurrected, I would not have the joy of seeing White Canary.
“Oh I’m sure the staff has a vengeful side and Courtney may even have a moment where she has to try and corral it (she may or may not succeed), I just mean I like it having a personality of it’s own instead of just being a stick. :)”
Shrug. I do not mind a weapon with a personality (Singing Sword of Prince Valiant>) but I do mind a plot device if it becomes misused. The staff has not been misused… yet, but it can be.
“I can definitely get Rick’s power dropping g because of time but the staff should have melted those bars and even if you say it was less powerful from all it went through Yolonda’s claws don’t have limits like that so it should have messed up the steel and what they couldn’t cut the staff should have finished off. I get they needed Junior to die but I just feel they could have executed that scene a bit better and thus avoided this arguably nitpick.”
There is something every story teller learns and that is over a long period of continuity, “needs of the story” overrides reality or in some cases previously established story “facts”.
Let me use Homers “Illiad” and the characters of Hector and Achilles.
Now in previous examples of fighting, we have Homer define the limits of Achilles power. He could swing his sword and cleave a Trojan helmet down to the man’s jaw and that was how hard he could swing his sword.
To cast a spear at an enemy he could throw it as Homer relates about as far as half a modern soccer pitch lengthwise. Fairly realistic for a man.
When Hector is described attacking the chained barricade that protects the Greek ships, he is described as picking up a stone using it to beat through and break the stockaded gate by which the Greeks passed to and fro from their defended beachhead to attack the Trojans. Just as a guesstimate, I have figured that Hector would have to lift a 200 pound rock and bang hard enough at least six times to smash a palisade type door you might find on a modern barn that is locked with a cross bar.
That puts the limit of Hector’s strength. Want to guess how much stronger Hector is than Achilles? But…
When Hector kills Patroclus and Achilles seeks him out for revenge, the needs of the story require Achilles to be so much greater than Hector that this heretofore fearless Trojan “plies swift knees” and Achilles chases him around Troy about three times before Hector runs out of gas and turns to fight.
Needs of the story. Achilles has a better spear cast and he is a better sword fighter and “needs of the story”, Hector dies.
Needs of the story, steel bars can stop the staff, so Braindead jr. dies. This is DESPITE it being able to survive super-cold and being blown up.
As long as the writer can convince the audience that there must be some reason other than “needs of the story” it happened, then the audience will suspend disbelief and invent the excuse if they have too.
It is called “audience participation in the illusion”.
Or as Achilles might say, “It’s comics, Dude. The bars are made out of Nth metal or Adamantium.”
Monty
There are some exceptions to the rule Monty; they knew of the Lazarus Pits and had access to them so it makes sense for Sara to return but I have seen comments that say they evens used that too many times debatably. Here there’s no reasons for the kids to know about the pits; maybe Cindy could turn their bodies into drones but does she want to? I just don’t see a logical story reason for them to return and that’s what I want to avoid and where I think AOS has failed so poorly recently; not only did they spend a whole season hyping up character deaths last season but they killed people in some really final ways and lingered on those effects for characters so to then take it back via a LMD or saying the other one is still out there in time waiting to be rescued makes it feel very much like “What was the point then?” to me, yes you can argue technicality (I love to do that myself at times) but the fact is Clark Gregg is still there as a Coulson image so why kill him before the series final then? Just let him play it out and kill him in this last season. Yes Iain deCaster hasn’t been ok this season but still Fitz Is in play after spending screen time on a death scene for him last season and it’s all just very UGH to me. It’s kind of like main characters being in danger, it’s hard to feel scared for them to me because you know they’ll be ok as they’re mains/leads which is why I think it would be even more unique and intriguing for “Stargirl” to keep these individuals dead – Wizard was a big deal to the ISA at the time and now he’s dead because of Jordan, Joey is dead because Jordan wanted to set an example, and Henry is dead because of plot really but we’ll also say it’s because he stood against his dad…yes they aren’t mains except for Henry at the time but still two were big players so to have them stay dead adds weight I feel to the series and keeps your drama high because maybe anyone except Courtney (because title character) can die on this show!
Also again there’s no story reason for it except maybe Cindy and again she doesn’t honestly care about any of them enough to try and bring them back even if she could on some level, maybe they don’t look the same or sound the same because she didn’t master that to the level Ito could, so I personally think it’s better they all stay dead.
Nth metal would have been a good thing to say except then I doubt even Hourman or Brainwave Jr could have bent them; if Kara can’t bend it they’re not going to be able to bend it. Nth metal is one of the only things that can put Grundy down because of its magic busting properties; they did show the Hawks as part of the JSA so I wonder if we will hear comments of Nth metal being used at some point? For me, in regards to blocks for the staff and such, they easily could have just pushed the actors back a foot even and inserted a special effect which represents Brainwave’s force field and thus it makes sense they can’t get to the bars because we saw them trying to break the field around Henry so he could escape but they couldn’t so easy solution just extend the perimeter of the force field a little bit as Brainwave moves up in frame and then it’s fixed – they can’t touch the bars because they can’t reach them.
I’m willing to overlook some things Monty, but this was just too easy a fix for me to go with and thus it stuck out to me more than me being able to play along.
Aaron on July 26, 2020 at 7:39 am
“There are some exceptions to the rule Monty; they knew of the Lazarus Pits and had access to them so it makes sense for Sara to return but I have seen comments that say they evens used that too many times debatably. Here there’s no reasons for the kids to know about the pits; maybe Cindy could turn their bodies into drones but does she want to? I just don’t see a logical story reason for them to return and that’s what I want to avoid and where I think AOS has failed so poorly recently; not only did they spend a whole season hyping up character deaths last season but they killed people in some really final ways and lingered on those effects for characters so to then take it back via a LMD or saying the other one is still out there in time waiting to be rescued makes it feel very much like “What was the point then?” to me, yes you can argue technicality (I love to do that myself at times) but the fact is Clark Gregg is still there as a Coulson image so why kill him before the series final then? Just let him play it out and kill him in this last season. Yes Iain deCaster hasn’t been ok this season but still Fitz Is in play after spending screen time on a death scene for him last season and it’s all just very UGH to me. It’s kind of like main characters being in danger, it’s hard to feel scared for them to me because you know they’ll be ok as they’re mains/leads which is why I think it would be even more unique and intriguing for “Stargirl” to keep these individuals dead – Wizard was a big deal to the ISA at the time and now he’s dead because of Jordan, Joey is dead because Jordan wanted to set an example, and Henry is dead because of plot really but we’ll also say it’s because he stood against his dad…yes they aren’t mains except for Henry at the time but still two were big players so to have them stay dead adds weight I feel to the series and keeps your drama high because maybe anyone except Courtney (because title character) can die on this show!”
Well, spoiler alert, Geoff Johns killed Yolanda and Beth in the comics. If it is any consolation to you, they are still comic book dead as is Braindead Jr, who went about the same time. I have to say I was not happy at the time, but that was then and this is now. There is not much chance that they will be killed anytime soon to clear the decks for a tornado girl and a distaff Kryptonian. To be honest, though, if Hour Dude bites the big one, I will not miss him. He brings little to the team except “The Fonz” and I distinctly am not a fan of that type of character.
As for Cindy being in the same league as Dragon King when it comes to creating zombies? I’m not sure that is Shiv’s schtick. She is more a cyborg wolverine Weapon X-type character than a mad lizard-man deranged psycho scientist. Despite the fact that she killed her own mother, she is not in the mass murderer crazed war criminal category, yet.
Besides, as seen in the show so far, she is happy in the head and clearly not legally responsible for she is in lip harmonica territory. I mean “Let me out so I can kill her, daddy.” is kind of strait jacket- ville sprechen sie crazy. There is a reason Doctor Ito, the demented mad-scientist locked his daughter up. She is nuttier than a forest full of squirrels hopped up on amphetamine acorns. That kind of lass in looney land is not capable of doing good science.
More about resurrecting zombies…
“Also again there’s no story reason for it except maybe Cindy and again she doesn’t honestly care about any of them enough to try and bring them back even if she could on some level, maybe they don’t look the same or sound the same because she didn’t master that to the level Ito could, so I personally think it’s better they all stay dead.”
Personally; I would find it hilarious if Cindy tried to do her father’s gig. The results could be story interesting in the “Oh NO! I’m the Miss Plot Device that brought “Blackest Night” to the Arrowverse!”
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Blackest_Night
Start with Alan Scott and work your way south. Get Tom King to plot it.
YIKES!
“Nth metal would have been a good thing to say except then I doubt even Hourman or Brainwave Jr could have bent them; if Kara can’t bend it they’re not going to be able to bend it. Nth metal is one of the only things that can put Grundy down because of its magic busting properties; they did show the Hawks as part of the JSA so I wonder if we will hear comments of Nth metal being used at some point? For me, in regards to blocks for the staff and such, they easily could have just pushed the actors back a foot even and inserted a special effect which represents Brainwave’s force field and thus it makes sense they can’t get to the bars because we saw them trying to break the field around Henry so he could escape but they couldn’t so easy solution just extend the perimeter of the force field a little bit as Brainwave moves up in frame and then it’s fixed – they can’t touch the bars because they can’t reach them.”
This is the writer in me, Aaron. Why use expensive CGI when a 3 second line from Beth: “What’s happening to us? Can’t concentrate.”
And Braindead Jr. says; “It’s my dad. He’s messing with your minds…”
Save about $5,000 of CGI, give the audience an excuse tied to story and add tension and drama to the battle between father and son. Easy to do.
“I’m willing to overlook some things Monty, but this was just too easy a fix for me to go with and thus it stuck out to me more than me being able to play along.”
Well, James Robinson muffed it in the word processor (as he usually does) but I showed you how it can be handled. Not saying I am a better writer than JR, overall, but I do know a few tricks.
Monty
“Well, spoiler alert, Geoff Johns killed Yolanda and Beth in the comics.” – yeah let’s hope that DOESN’T happen on the show! Yolanda is probably my favorite character so far and Beth is fun. Rick is all about his revenge on Grundy so maybe once they fight he’ll work out some of his stuff and in season two he’ll have more to do; I don’t mind him but he isn’t very memorable in the group currently.
“Not saying I am a better writer than JR, overall, but I do know a few tricks.” – anything would have been better almost than what we got Monty.
Aaron on July 26, 2020 at 8:16 pm
“Well, spoiler alert, Geoff Johns killed Yolanda and Beth in the comics.” – yeah let’s hope that DOESN’T happen on the show! Yolanda is probably my favorite character so far and Beth is fun. Rick is all about his revenge on Grundy so maybe once they fight he’ll work out some of his stuff and in season two he’ll have more to do; I don’t mind him but he isn’t very memorable in the group currently.”
Aaron, I don’t think we can count on character shields for Yvette Monreal and Anjelica Washington. Anjelika has to amp up her Q and Yvette has to get better on the wire work or they are both toast. as far as their character futures are concerned.
Cameron Gellman (Hour Dude) is a write out, once the Solomon Grundy revenge story is finished. He brings nothing to the ensemble. MNy opinion only and sorry to any Cameron Gellman fans, but I call it like I see it.
““Not saying I am a better writer than JR, overall, but I do know a few tricks.” – anything would have been better almost than what we got Monty.”
Now that is funny, Aaron. I rewatched the episode tonight and went up close to my playback to really eyeball the scene where Braindead Jr is on one side of the bars and the JSA is on the other, and I SAW the shimmer effect of an implied forcefield keeping the JSA from rescuing BDJ. It is there, faint, and badly bungled as an effect but the shimmer is there. So maybe you saw it and subconsciously noticed it. I only picked it up this time because you suggested that it should have been done.
It was done…. BADLY.
Monty.
Stargirl (TV Series)
“Shining Knight” (2020)
Directed by Jennifer Phang who did a bang up job.
Writing Credits
Geoff Johns … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by) and
Lee Moder … (“Courtney Whitmore” created for DC by)
Geoff Johns … (created for television by)
Geoff Johns … (written by) WHAM episode.
Taylor Streitz … (executive story editor)
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Brec Bassinger … Courtney Whitmore / Stargirl
Yvette Monreal … Yolanda Montez / Wildcat
Anjelika Washington … Beth Chapel / Dr. Mid-Nite
Cameron Gellman … Rick Tyler / Hourman
Trae Romano … Mike Dugan
Neil Jackson … Jordan Mahkent
Christopher James Baker … Henry King Sr. / Braindead Sr.
Amy Smart … Barbara Whitmore
Luke Wilson … Pat Dugan / S.T.R.I.P.E.
Geoff Stults … Sam Kurtis / Con-daddy-agogo
Mark Ashworth … Janitor Justin / The Shining Knight
Nelson Lee … Dr. Shiro Ito / Dragon King
Hina X. Khan … Anaya Bowin / The Fiddler (Virtuosa) (as Hina Khan)
Ashley Winfrey … Jenny Williams
Jasun Jabbar Wardlaw Jr. … Brian Tanner Balloid (as Jasun Jabbar)
https://stargirl.fandom.com/wiki/Brian_Tanner_Balloid#:~:text=Brian%20Tanner%20Balloid%20is%20a%20character%20in%20The,friends%20with%20Henry%20King%20Jr.%20and%20Travis%20Thomas.
Bill Southworth Bill Southworth … Farmer Frank
Maria Sager … Maria
Suehyla El-Attar … Mrs. Patterson
Brandon Reece … Pedestrian #1
Rest of cast listed alphabetically:
Shawn Weston Thacker … Student (uncredited)
Review: It is hard to make sense of this Bridger episode. The Title says “Shining Knight” and the lesson is that heroes come from anywhere; but they have to believe in their heroism. So this episode is not so much about Justin who pursued the Dragon King to Blue Valley and was taken by the ISA and in ironic cruelty; suffered death of personality at the hands of Braindead Sr. and Doctor Ito.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfPersonality#:~:text=Death%20of%20Personality.%20This%20trope%20covers%20situations%20when,Loss%20of%20Identity%20or%20damage%20to%20the%20soul%29.
An example is Babylon 5 “Journey to Gethsemane”; a horribly cruel but spectacular episode in a series full of them, which is a good comparator as a morality tale to this episode of Stargirl. I highly recommend the comparison of both episodes to each other.
===========================================================
Courtney is the shining knight. But she has hurdles in her reach to the next level of her responsibility and her power. She has to have her illusions about herself shattered. She has to deal with her guilt (and it is a genuine guilt, for though she did not murder Braindead Jr. and Joey (Wizard Jr); she has to recognize that her heroics were causal factors that prompted the villains to kill.
Then she has to have her mythology about her delusional origin story wiped out and erased. Sam Kurtis is half of Courtney’s DNA. Who is Sam Curtis? Dad. Apparently Sam came by to grift (a term meaning to con family members out of money or valuables, usually to finance some criminal activity contemplated by the grafter.) Long story short, Courtney gives up her locket and her “memories” of her supposed dad. This shatters her and she loses faith. The staff will not work for her.
I suppose at some point, she would have to come to terms with her “self” and figure out that it is she who the staff loves and serves, not some imagined genetic or noble blood descended legacy. But this is a 42 minute episode and the struggle to reconcile self with belief in self has to be hurried along. Janitor Justin is therefore part of this story as a shorthand storyteller of another hero who went through what Courtney traverses now. He is both triumph and tragedy, as the example, because though he is The Shining Knight and his valor at one crucial desperate time saved the world as the leader of The Seven Soldiers of Victory and he is the legacy of King Arthur, HE is what happens to good men who rise to the call, and then are spent in the service of Good. I would call that the same exact fate John Philip Sheridan of Babylon 5 suffers, and I do mean the word “suffer”.
Sorry, Geoff Johns, like J. Michael Stracynski, can bring tears to my eyes as balladeers who sing great tales. Cause I KNOW this story. I’ve seen it in real life, not just fiction. And I see people who have asked me WHY it is so. And all I can tell them, is it is the price of admiralty…
The Song Of The Dead
Hear now the Song of the Dead — in the North by the torn berg-edges —
They that look still to the Pole, asleep by their hide-stripped sledges.
Song of the Dead in the South — in the sun by their skeleton horses,
Where the warrigal whimpers and bays through the dust
of the sear river-courses.
Song of the Dead in the East — in the heat-rotted jungle hollows,
Where the dog-ape barks in the kloof —
in the brake of the buffalo-wallows.
Song of the Dead in the West —
in the Barrens, the waste that betrayed them,
Where the wolverene tumbles their packs
from the camp and the grave-mound they made them;
Hear now the Song of the Dead!
I
We were dreamers, dreaming greatly, in the man-stifled town;
We yearned beyond the sky-line where the strange roads go down.
Came the Whisper, came the Vision, came the Power with the Need,
Till the Soul that is not man’s soul was lent us to lead.
As the deer breaks — as the steer breaks — from the herd where they graze,
In the faith of little children we went on our ways.
Then the wood failed — then the food failed — then the last water dried —
In the faith of little children we lay down and died.
On the sand-drift — on the veldt-side — in the fern-scrub we lay,
That our sons might follow after by the bones on the way.
Follow after — follow after! We have watered the root,
And the bud has come to blossom that ripens for fruit!
Follow after — we are waiting, by the trails that we lost,
For the sounds of many footsteps, for the tread of a host.
Follow after — follow after — for the harvest is sown:
By the bones about the wayside ye shall come to your own!
When Drake went down to the Horn
And England was crowned thereby,
‘Twixt seas unsailed and shores unhailed
Our Lodge — our Lodge was born
(And England was crowned thereby!)
Which never shall close again
By day nor yet by night,
While man shall take his life to stake
At risk of shoal or main
(By day nor yet by night).
But standeth even so
As now we witness here,
While men depart, of joyful heart,
Adventure for to know
(As now bear witness here!)
II
We have fed our sea for a thousand years
And she calls us, still unfed,
Though there’s never a wave of all her waves
But marks our English dead:
We have strawed our best to the weed’s unrest,
To the shark and the sheering gull.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ paid in full!
There’s never a flood goes shoreward now
But lifts a keel we manned;
There’s never an ebb goes seaward now
But drops our dead on the sand —
But slinks our dead on the sands forlore,
From the Ducies to the Swin.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ paid it in!
We must feed our sea for a thousand years,
For that is our doom and pride,
As it was when they sailed with the ~Golden Hind~,
Or the wreck that struck last tide —
Or the wreck that lies on the spouting reef
Where the ghastly blue-lights flare.
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha’ bought it fair!
You pay for the good with blood, children who would be heroes. You pay with blood.
As for the villains, well, Braindead Sr. and Icicle make their villain growls at each other and BDS pushes Icicle to find out the “truth” about Barbara Whitmore and Courtney. Sorry Icicle Jr.; Dad has changed his mind about your puppy love. Icicle now intends that Braindead Sr. is to kill the Whitmore/Dugans, down to the dog.
“Can’t leave a legacy.”
I suspect that it too late for that; Mr. Frosty, cause Courtney CHOSE her parents, chose her origin, chose her belief and finally accepted the grim price the staff offered her.
“Our Queen has risen.”
Great episode. 20/20/20 out of 5/5/5
Monty
Credit to Achilles:
Well this was certainly not only one of the best episodes of Stargirl, (don’t ask me for THE best, I’d have to watch them all again back to back for that), if not TV as a whole in years. Hit out of the park in all ways. The writing, acting, and directing were all bang on, and this had some of the most actorish stuff in the series so far, and that’s from a series that has always depended on good acting.
To start, Pat is now ever more the best character, (in terms of being the best person), in superhero TV. I wonder what his brother is going to do over in Loki. Regardless, it’d have to be beyond great to beat Luke. That bit where he confronted Sam, (the name of one of my Cattle dogs, a sweet rescue dog), was…something I knew was going to happen, but still loved the hell out of it when it did. Now THAT’S the mark of a great show, when you don’t mind at all that you saw story beats coming.
The villains. Damn, just when you think they MIGHT have some redeeming characteristics, they smack you in the head with the fact that they don’t, and are in fact in the case of Brainwave and Icicle two of the best TV supervillains I’ve ever seen. They can be chilling, something I don’t see from the Arrowverse bad guys. I like that they resisted for the most part the temptation to make them a bit funny, like many of the Arrowverse bad guys. It can work to be sure, but the choice to simply make them damaged, evil and awful people who are nothing more than stone cold killers who will kill absolutely anybody for no reason at all….that was a great call.
Mike Duggan. Even the youngest member of the cast is good, and that’s staggering. He’s capable of nuance in his acting, and of conveying genuine emotion in a way that many of the much older Arrowverse types really can’t, (I’m looking at you SG cast, among others). The bit about killing him too was ominous and a great emotional button to push.
True, Shining Knight was more a lesson than an active character, and he obviously needs something more to recover enough to be useful in the coming fight.
Basinger has been good from the start, but this episode is where she raises her game even more. I didn’t count a single fight scene there, and it didn’t matter, the show was still great.
ETA’s comparison to Bab 5 is well taken; both are exquisitely planned and written shows, (Bab 5 had a beautiful little throw away episode that actually meant more than you might think written by Neil Gaiman iIRC). Both could chill at times. Both seem to be planned in a way few shows are, (Bab 5 actually was planned from the start for the ending it used). Both had great acting, (sadly, many of the Bab 5 actors have since died).
While I looked forward to watching both, Stargirl is the one that makes me smile. And that’s worth a lot, especially now, in the year of horror.