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[sc:astop]Martin “The Flash” and Cammien Ray discuss how season 7 is progressing as we are introduced to The Longbow Hunters. Team Arrow is in fragments as everyone seems to have a different approach to catching Dragon, and meanwhile Oliver Queen finds his time in prison is about to get even bloodier. Flashforward to the island, and William Queen is revealing some interesting details to Roy about where exact his family has gone. Tune in to hear our thoughts and theories!
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Cammie brought this on herself – in her YouTube after show she said she thought the new Arrow was a woman to which I say let’s do Green Arrow/Black Canary, it’s the best of both worlds for fans as you keep Olicity but also do the comic pairing with Dinah and her Arrow girlfriend. 🙂
The Longbow Hunters were better than the guy who hired him!
Salty Flash…is that even a thing? I didn’t know his voice could do that. Ha. I get it regarding Felicity, she was pretty pushy this episode but on the reverse side I get why she’s in a hurry to fix things too so I’m giving her a pass this episode.
Katie’s face next to Julianna’s face or on it is visually appealing Cammie to be fair, it’s just when you add in Black Siren’s history with Dinah that things fall apart. 🙂
My fear is they’ll end up with Black Siren back in season four Laurel land where she was just there basically to say she’s there – she did nothing memorable all season (well she did yell at Oliver once which I loved but grand scheme wise it was nothing) and they handicapped her powers it felt to make other situations happened and just no to doing that again with Katie. Having her there just to say she’s on the show is part of what lead to her wanting out and the season four drama which everyone hated in the first place so why repeat that? It’s nice the writers admit they screwed up by killing Laurel versus just writing her out so she could return to help now organically but it feels they haven’t learned why fans were in part so frustrated with her exit in the first place; being fair to the new writers they could just be doing the long con thing and they know Black Siren will be evil in the end but given the history of other season teams I’m nervous because I see the good that can come from evil Black Siren and so I don’t want to lose it just say “Look we got Katie back fans!” and really she just goes back to being on a shelf essentially because we have Dinah who fans also like so what’s the need for two good screamers if you will? That’s another reason not to redeem Black Siren – she’s the bad guys’ answer to team Arrow’s Canary Cry which is arguably their most powerful physical weapon, if they’re both on the team you create situations of “Why do we need X we have Y?” and I feel that’s just asking for a fan divide which again leads back to season four issues and someone getting written out in a way that just angers half if not all of fan base. I LOVED the dual scream this episode against a Longbow Hunter but you don’t need Black Siren to be good to get more of those scenes – again she can help the team when it also benefits her and you have situations like this again where Dinah and evil Laurel help each other escape a bigger problem in the moment.
The idea of a redemption for Black Siren right now is enough to frustrate me so much to write these novels as Flash says :), if they went actual redemption as I said I think I would quit the show out of just depression over that loss because while she’s not a main character she could effect so much being evil and the plot possibilities are so good it’d just be devastating to me to loss that so soon. As I said they can redeem her in season 20 because the redemption will be even sweeter arguably given the build up to it if they just have to redeem her but there’s no need to redeem her right now.
Quentin is not the evidence you want to bring to me personally Cammie in this Black Siren redemption case because he is SO problematic when it comes to her I can’t take that as a serious reason. I can understand MAYBE feeling sorry for Dinah because she didn’t want to kill Vince that day and she certainly doesn’t like having to give in to Dragon right then so she’s a little sorry for that but because she’s happy for Quentin who stalked her – I can’t buy that. I know some will find it sweet he’s trying to help this kid who didn’t have a good dad but the way they executed it all last season just tainted that plot for me because again he stalked her hard which I have a problem with (had he kept running into her because plot it would have been one thing but actively following her felt weird), he pushed his dead kid’s image onto her which is problematic as it disrespects evil Laurel as an individual, and I don’t mean to be crappy to good single dads out there but the idea a good dad in her life is all evil Laurel needed to be good just makes me want to hurl because it disrespects good single moms with that notice and there are people who have good parents yet are still bad so it’s not like a realistic magic cure. I know this isn’t a realistic world given the powers of some but given they’re based on our world again it doesn’t fit that one good parent can solve everything. It might be possible for some but I don’t feel Black Siren fits that situation because didn’t come out of the portal talking about how she wish she had parents like another character so clearly that’s not a factor for her in changing; she is build to change because she wants too and I don’t think any outside thing is going to speed that up. Quentin is just not a believable reason for me because as they showed on screen he was more into saving good Laurel who’s not coming back, even if they redeem Black Siren because they aren’t the same person, than he was in honestly helping Black Siren; and I’m sorry but not even a guest appearance by Sara saying “thanks for saving him” can change that.
Even the Dinah point is shakey because again just because Siren didn’t want to kill Vince that day doesn’t mean she didn’t want to kill him later for betraying the group which she was a part of so even that sorry I find hard to believe fully.
Again she has no reason to want to be good for anyone in the good guy squad right now and even if she did it doesn’t mean she would go good because selfishness may out weigh the intrigue of being good still after decades of doing it so she’s not ready to commit seriously just yet.
Just no redeeming Black Siren for the next 3 seasons please!
Have her kill Diaz at the end of this season and when team Arrow acts shocked she can say “I’m a bad guy you idiots!” or something and when Oliver points an arrow at her she can joke about S4 asking “What are you going to do kill me?” because that went bad for the writers in that season just as killing the DA would go bad for the team for sure so you make her the main bad guy next season and maybe they find a way to stop her so she goes away for a bit but then comes back later because bad guys escape – it’s no different than Katie being out between S4 and S6 or her not being in an episode regularly like Ricky was out of some episodes last season when Wild Dog went down. If they want Katie Cassidy herself on set you can do that via flashback Laurel, flashforward now Laurel, or ghost good Laurel because a plot has brought up memories for the team or you know she could go do something on Legends or Flash to have her in universe still but not on Arrow so you don’t get Siren burn out or a quality decreasing Siren because they’re trying to fill a season arc with her versus just letting her be their most amazing debatably recurring bad guy.
Bottom line there’s no rush to redeem Black Siren as she offers WAY more as a bad guy currently than another good guy or even anti hero; progress her from evil to anti hero and then redeem her to that level for good (anti hero not straight good) so she’s in that middle of doing good but not in the best of ways – maybe she still steals things like Mick at times or she beats/kills bad guys because she makes a debatably good case for that response but she’s a “good guy” as far as the team goes in season 15. 🙂
Obviously Roy wasn’t ready to retire because DANG Colton; he looked good with that beard and touch of gray! 🙂
True Flash, Barry does like to change timelines so this could not even be the real future if you will; still who else wants to see gray haired Dinah? I feel Julianna will work gray streaks that mirror her mom’s hair if you’ve ever seen it, it would look good on her. I say Felicity will dye her hair because of some ye oldie thing Donna once said to her about aging. Ha. She might have one gray streak but she above them all will still look the same hair wise. 🙂 Nora could also change things via her actions this season on “Flash”.
I loved the scene of Siren and the silent ninja Longbow Hunter fighting in the room directly next to Dinah and she hears nothing and the cut between it to show how someone could be in trouble and a team member not even know it or a bad guy could be on your and you not know it – that was a really cool moment.
Oh Flash…Guardian is bad I’ll give you a pass on this “Supergirl” slam. Ha. I liked the Longbow Hunters myself so far; true they haven’t done a lot yet but I’m already into seeing more of them than I am Dragon so there’s that! The way the choreographed the break in at the start was AWESOME!
Agreed Flash, I think the Longbow Hunters tech is just high tech tech.
I’m glad Watson is back! 🙂
Just a reminder: queer William doesn’t stop you from also doing queer Zoe if you want writers! We can have a 50/50 straight-queer ratio with characters.
Dinah does say later in the episode that she only cares about what Siren is doing because she looks like Laurel and so they have to protect the DA otherwise she’d let Dragon kill her.
I’m with Flash Cammie stop with Dinah and Diggle. Ha. I give you full permission to talk about Dinah/Siren instead as NO to Diggle/Dinah, I will not have you pushing out a love of mine Lyla!
I REALLY hope they don’t have this sub Arrow be William from the future because that feels too much like a “Flash” plot instead; sorry Cammie but it does look like a guy in the suit but I’m still with you in hopes it’s a girl because that would be awesome!
To be fair to Siren, last year the team came out and gave her that excuse when she showed up at the mayor office I think it was so they said it was good Laurel who faked her death due to someone after her last season but she’s back now, Siren herself did not say she was their Laurel first that is on team Arrow which again would make the drama so good when she’s screwing with them as the DA because they set her up in this position so they only have themselves to blame! 🙂 Now to be fair to Green Butterfly, Siren did start researching Laurel’s law books that Quentin stupidly gave her access too but that was again only after the team pushed Laurel’s identity onto Siren – she can be using that as a way to screw with them again no need to rush to redemption writers!
I thought Roy said “I’m not going back to Star City!” and then burned the paper which caused William to have a look of panic on his face at the end? I agree with all saying Felicity and Oliver wouldn’t abandon William no matter his age so something must be up.
Woah, let’s slow down on offing Siren okay, she’s got some great potential plots if they don’t redeem her so I think it’s too soon to go there. No killing and no redeeming Siren right now and no redeeming Siren through a death later!
Cammie half admitted she doesn’t hate Wild Dog this season – a clear sign they have improved with his handling! Ha.
Since you’re into naming I want an antihero name! 🙂
YES Amanda; I hate it when shows act like they didn’t do something the previous season, for example with “Supergirl” I can’t buy Lames because James was a jerk to Lena all of S2 because of her last name basically and I can’t buy Kara saying she can’t tell Lena who she is this season because she was all “Lena isn’t her name” last season. It’s things like that that make plots feel manufactured.
A great podcast episode!