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[sc:astop]Cayden James approaches Oliver Queen with an offer he can’t quite refuse in this week’s episode. While Team Arrow is still divided into two trios, the two sides make an agreement to share information, as the threats the teams are facing begin to hit a little closer to home. Help comes from unlikely sources, and secrets are kept by unlikely sources, as everyone must work together before Cayden’s ultimatum hits.
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As you might suspect I am SO excited for Nyssa’s return! Again I would be even more excited if it was announced she was also doing LEGENDS but I’ll take this as a layover.
Dinah is definitely swoon worthy; yes it’s easy to see her physical beauty but her overall swoonness is enhanced with her intelligence, bravery, the ability to stand up for herself, her kindness…when’s the Dinah centric podcast episode Flash, let’s get on this! 🙂
I feel Vince might see himself as a good guy but in reality he’s not that good; the guy was shot in the head that had to do something to his mental state even with dark matter healing and you add he’s been undercover a lot – it’s possible his sense of reality has shifted. We don’t know how many undercover missions Dinah has done so her ability to return to what’s deemed normal is arguably better than Vince who lives in the gray going under so much, I find it very easy to believe he’s in world where he thinks one thing but in actuality it’s another. He may not see an issue with how he’s approaching things if he feels he’s a good guy but really he’s causing chaos for those around him; I love the ambiguity to his handling but long run I don’t trust him. Then again he could be in perfect mental function and trying to be the good guy he’s just not handling it well or he could be playing them all. As Cammie said it’s very hard to really say what side Vince is on and that makes for some great organic drama I feel, applause to the writers and actor on that aspect.
One aspect I am worried about though like you two is Dinah and how she’s being portrayed in relation to Vince; I am so worried she’s going to end up looking like a tropey girlfriend in the end, by that I mean she’s going to have more out of character moments than in and they’ll create manufactured drama in order to keep Vince relevant but it makes Dinah look bad…I realize that’s probably not their intention but I just worry about Dinah. They do have some questionable moments with her which could play either way but I just feel in actuality she would have made time to pull him aside and questioned the crap out of Vince by now. I get there’s a romantic history between them so Dinah is hoping for the best if nothing else so he can get back the life she thinks he deserves but that hope doesn’t mean she has to be naive which is how she would feel if she just is shown accepting whatever he tells her instead of listening to her cop instincts and others when they’re trying to warn her about things he’s done; just because Dinah can explain his actions doesn’t mean she has to be ok with them!
I realize this may seem cold but I’d be okay with Dinah not being that broken up if Vince died even if he died protecting her because while it’s sad he’s dead again she already mourned him once and she doesn’t really know this new version so for me it would feel kind of cliche if she was bawling over him as if they had been back together for months. Shed tears some ok but let’s not act like their relationship now is on the same level of a Felicity crying over Oliver in the position; yes again they have history but Vince isn’t the same guy Dinah knew and they’ve spent maybe 10 minutes all season together – a rose matchbox note does not an OTP make.
Honestly I’d rather Vince died a good guy and have Dinah not believe him than seeing her get played because her getting played makes her look like a fool and Dinah is not a fool! If he dies good but she didn’t believe him I feel there’s realistic understandings for that as he did abandon her for months after the shooting, he’s been killing people, and even if he isn’t hurting her physically he’s still screwing with her friends for debatable reasons so it would be more organic I feel if she had reservations about trusting him versus her just going along with something because the guy she loved is alive. I have to say this is one of the things where “Arrow” should look to “Supergirl” because they did a wonderfully realistic scene between Eliza and Jeremiah Danvers when he returned in S2 where she admitted she cared about him still and she treasures the memories of him but she was not in any rush to get back with him as he’s not the same man she knew from before because even if he was doing things for the family his handling is questionable. I’m just really nervous about how Dinah is going to be respected writing wise in the name of this Vince plot; so far they’re still in the ok range but my caution level goes up with up with each episode it feels!
I’m with Flash, it would be really disappointing after all of this if they just talked the bad guys down; I also don’t want to see them all redeemed because 1) we don’t know enough about Dragon to care about a redemption for him, 2) Black Siren is too awesome a bad guy to redeem – the show needs her more as a quality villain than they need another good guy, and 3) I don’t think Anatoli cares about redemption so really if anyone behind Vince was going to turn I’d rather see if he Cayden than his group. Technically he’s gone too far to be redeemed to a full good guy but him finding some ground with the team makes more sense than any of them if he’s working off false information which I’m still not sold on as it’s hard to tell time on TV shows so it’s possible, while slim, Oliver did shoot his son accidentally because Oliver can miss when faced with another worthy opponent as they’re trying to keep that challenge alive so the character will move in time to avoid a hit; I actually think it would fit in well with the dark theme of the series and show Oliver isn’t perfect because sometimes because he’s the title character it feels like they try to push he is but really he’s not as right as they think, but if someone else did shoot his son then I would think Cayden would give pause to his mission or at least I hope they would give him a moment or reflection because what do you do when you learn your whole mission is a lie? I understand it wouldn’t be very climactic but I could buy his backing down more than I could others especially Laurel who wants to kill them all.
Lol to the name The Time Out Trio!
You joke Cammie but I feel asking “when Dinah is going to get respect” is a fair question! She’s had a rough go with the teams so far. She’s got about as much tactical training as Renee, John, or Oliver so I don’t get why she’s not leading NTA; fair Curtis has seniority and he’s smart but is he planning smarter than Dinah? Yes she’s in connect with someone who’s attacked them but them giving her a hard time over that is hypocritical given Oliver’s worked with Malcolm and John tried to help Andy, yes that a familial bond but who’s to say Dinah’s former love for Vince isn’t as deep as John’s was for Andy. Overall they are handling Dinah well I’ll admit but I do have an air of cautious watching her as they’ve also put her in some questionable situations that I’m not sure a male character would have been placed in and that makes me sad feeling watching her stuff at times. Andy working John might be the closest comparison to this, but still I feel Dinah is being sucked in a bit more and that feels unfair; yes Oliver got played for half an episode when evil Laurel returned thinking she was Laurel in some form but still that’s a half an episode versus this multiple episode arc Dinah has been on. It might just be me but I’m just very cautious of a double standard!
“What do you want for William going forward?” – for him to not be mini Oliver! Arguably the most refreshing thing about William for me is the fact he’s not an Arrow fanboy, heck Oliver isn’t even his favorite parental figure possibly ha; too often you find out kids of hero’s who show up later in the series already liked that hero so when they find out their parent is said hero it’s like Christmas but William is into Flash and that’s extremely refreshing to me. I personally did groan at them playing with the bows but William seemed to be having fun more than getting into it as a future thing so I shrugged it off; while he’s seen more than other children it doesn’t mean he should be instantly good at leading situations so I did winch at the bus scene, don’t get me wrong I was SO happy to not see him being a damsel but still overall it kind of made me roll my eyes. For me it would be far more interesting to see William fanboy over Felicity or Curtis or Dinah…literally anyone besides Oliver because if he becomes a mini Arrow I’m done with him as that plot does nothing for me and honestly feels like forcing a kid plot which I’ve seen happen on a lot of series and what I’m hoping they avoid on “Arrow” and “Supergirl” – you can have kids on the show without making them mini Xs or damsels of the week. To me Zoe is still the best child addition so far on the seasons between the two series as she feels like she’s not a damsel, she adds to Renee’s story without being the focus of it so it makes you question why he’s still involved with the group, and she’s just acted well; to be fair Ruby on “Supergirl” would be my second spot because she’s got similar traits but she has been a little more damsel like than Zoe and William is third because they just annoyed me with some of his early handling, as Cammie said one of the best things they’ve done is age him up closer to the actor’s real age it feels so he’s still got questions but he’s not like a younger kid who can’t take care of himself more often, and I do fear he’ll become Arrow junior and that would just be a bust to me.
I’m all for William helping as Flash said, but I don’t think it needs to be as Arrow in training; I think him spotting things others might miss in the heat of the moment is a great starting place or maybe he suggests an approach because they’re thinking too strategically when really a simple approach is best, if he wants to train okay but I hope it’s for something other than dawning a green suit. He can shoot bows with Oliver for fun because it gives them a bonding event but don’t train to be the next Arrow please!
I’m bummed we won’t get auntie Thea really but maybe when she comes back to the main group we can get auntie Dinah and William time because for some reason I feel they would be adorable together! That or it’d be cute Dinah is William’s crush since it would be creepy if Felicity was it now, understandable but a little weird. 🙂
I also have to vote no on a super powered Diggle! Sadly that would fit “Arrow”‘s history of unrealistic fight scenes but personally I’m loving these new more realistic ones so I hope they continue; I’m for Diggle having a quicker targeting times as the chip could process learned reflexes faster and him potentially lifting objects with slightly more ease but the chip isn’t a super suit so no crazy lifts or skills please. 🙂
It wouldn’t surprise me if the CW did an “Outsiders” show either on the Seed channel or live action given they’ve got a few members in the world now. I don’t watch “Black Lightening” as if conflicts with “This Is Us” but I do wonder if Supergirl is strictly a comic character in their world or is the book based on Kara’s adventures? Speaking of superhero merchandise, how does Barry feel about his swag? Does he make a cut off of if somehow? William had an Arrow figure as well so who’s cashing in on their images? Oliver could definitely use the percentage right now if he is paying off Cayden to buy time. Ha.
A great discussion hosts!