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[sc:astop]
Hello, Arrow Squad. Welcome back. We are so glad you are joining us for the discussion of this very poignant episode of Arrow. Yes, in this podcast we cover the events of Season 4 Episode 18 “Eleven Fifty-Nine”, which originally aired on Wednesday April 6, 2016. Due to real life, Podcast Overlord and I (Miss Ice) recorded the podcast on Wednesday evening right after the show ended and…emotions were high. I have no doubt that the two-week hiatus we now have before the next installment will see many shifts in my own perspective, as well as many of you.
What I didn’t really think about until after we turned off our mics was thinking about the events of this episode in scope of what has been going on with Felicity. I was very taken by how well executed this episode was that I sort of tabled the Felicity drama and zero-ed in on Laurel’s arc. Heroes, though, aren’t a product of an easy-going and balanced life, they’re forged from the pain and weight of their difficult experiences. If nothing else, this reminded us of Oliver’s past in a way we haven’t really thought about lately. He had a relationship with this woman, and even after loving Shado and cheating on Laurel with Sarah, still considered her “home” when marooned on Lian-Yu. It was just nice to be reminded of the bond they once had, and the fact that Laurel still considers him her first love. Or true love? I still need to rewatch the episode for the details.
Eleven Fifty-Nine
Time of death: 11:59.
We knew a death was coming. To some, and many, it being Laurel was a shock. I heard a really good theory about it being Laurel in the grave at Heroes and Villains and so it’s been in the back of my mind for a couple weeks. Then, throughout this episode, felt like I saw it coming. Podcast Overlord had a different reaction entirely to the Laurel-centric details, which makes me think the theories I’d heard prior influenced my interpretation of events.
As Podcast Overlord said, we definitely don’t have to like this decision, we don’t have to like that we’ll no longer have this character on the show (or the actress!) but, in my own opinion and perception, I was pleased with the performances overall. The manner of her death, at the hands of Damien Darhk, will re-instill a sense of urgency in Oliver. Hopefully it won’t send him running back into the darkness, even though he claims that he never truly retreated from it, but I do hope that it reminds him of his reasons for putting on that mask.
What I will not enjoy is if this is somehow revealed to be a ruse. I know we’ve talked on the podcast before about that possibility, and I know I’ve expressed my opinion that I wouldn’t enjoy that, but now, more than ever, I am holding to that. For starters, if it is a ruse and given the context of the characters at the end of this episode (all experiencing shock and grief), I feel like we are exactly where we were a year ago when Oliver pledged his allegiance to Ra’s al Ghul and made his team think that he’d really given himself up to that mission. It cheapens it for me when the actors portray grief as a cover for faking Laurel’s death and I would feel very cheated. Perhaps this is do to recently experiencing a similar grief myself, or perhaps it is all that Arrow has put us through with deaths and resurrections, but the only two people who’ve stayed dead on this show, really, are Oliver’s parents.
As much as I don’t want to say goodbye to the character of Laurel Lance and this incarnation of the Black Canary, I would rather see character work through their grief and use it to press forward instead of it being a show in order to convince the villain of her demise. Whether it is just Oliver in on the ruse, or all of them, wouldn’t much matter, but we would really be back to a year ago if he was the only one in on it. How’s he going to seek forgiveness for this one?
48% Write-In
The remaining 52% of people who voted for Ruve (or other write-ins) likely didn’t know that writing in Oliver’s name was even an option! What an interesting twist to the campaign story, one that I can’t help but wonder will come back around when/if Ruve is outed as Mrs. Evil. As Project Genesis comes to fruition and the people of Star City see who she really is, perhaps they will rise up against her. Or perhaps she will meet her own demise and Oliver will be offered the position when she’s put in the ground.
Either way, I feel like we haven’t finished with this storyline. Oliver may need to become the mayor if this show is going to manage a fifth season because, really, it’s a little more than weird he doesn’t have a day job. He can’t claim to be a rich playboy or a philanderer; he’s not rolling in cash; he’s not marrying rich. He’s just Oliver. Does he live in The Bunker? I know I’m talking about something pretty small in the scheme of things, but the advice he directed to Laurel about pursuing the path she was originally on was poignant enough for me to want to see him rejoin the world. What other options does he have at this point?
I’m sure they’ll surprise us. They often do.
Next Week
Arrow returns in TWO weeks with episode 19 of season 4 (episode title TBA).
Thank You
Huge thank you to Mark Des Cotes of Solo Talk Media (Facebook | Twitter) for editing and producing this episode of Arrow Squad!
Feedback
We recorded earlier than usual this week, but don’t let that deter you from reacting to this very heart-wrenching episode! We’ll all consume this episode differently, consume the events differently, and we want to respect all points-of-view. Please send us an email or voicemail by using our feedback page.
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I disagree they did Laurel well for the exit, yes she had good moments, but if this was going to be her last ever episode (flashbacks not counted) then I wanted to see the Canary Cry and her being more involved in the prison fight because once they got the big area she disappeared next to Diggle, Andy, and Oliver…even Thea in the background was in it more than her. It was an okay exit I guess since she was heavy in this episode compared to others this season, but I don’t know if I’d call it a good send off completely.
I agree with Podcast Overload regarding Andy in this episode. The Laurel and Thea Arrow Cave fight was good. I have to say I didn’t see Laurel coming because I think there is still more to do with her.
Lance getting there just a bit too late was crushing. I don’t want to see Felicity get extra powers, her brain power is enough for me personally. Another Vixen appearance would be cool.
My episode review…
I’m happy the team was smart enough to not put the idol back together completely, but still it seems even safer to destroy it all together or at least scatter pieces around the world just to avoid Darkh getting his hands on it any time soon. Darkh is such a jerk to put it lightly, but I love his comebacks. Why did Laurel not Canary Cry the gun away from Darkh or use it to destroy the idol? Some of the moments in this episode just felt very set up & that took away from their impact for me. Until proven otherwise, I’m going with Laurel faked her death; we know they have ways of faking out machines & we didn’t get to hear what she said to Oliver so it just feels like a potential set up. It wouldn’t be the first time someone came back to life on this show. The biggest hiccup is would Laurel leave Lance unprotected arguably? He still has the team watching over him, but he’s not going to listen to them like he would her.
Another debate is what would Laurel do hiding out, would she help Nyssa with her plans just to be able to operate a bit more openly while still carrying the Canary name or would she go start an equally helpful but less attention heavy job so she could get that more simple life she wants in another city? If Laurel’s really dead it’ll be extremely sad because there was more to do with her; it would have been equally as interesting to see them touch on the “How much is enough?” topic with Laurel meaning at what point is she allowed her own life? Yes, what she’s doing is a great service but she deserves her life as much as anyone so at what point is it okay to retire; does she have to be older to do it with some trainee ready to take her place or if she feels she needs the break & has done enough now is it not okay for her to walk away as a young hero? I know they touched on retiring with Olicity during their Ivy Town stay, but why couldn’t Laurel bring that back up in this episode by retiring now as well & just being Laurel Lance DA who helps from the inside or leaving to help elsewhere by cover of fake death because she needs a break from Black Canary currently but she refuses to work with Adams? It could set up the question for Oliver again at series finale of “Would I be ok retiring?”; it doesn’t make him a bad guy for leaving while he still has all his body parts & physical/mental abilities in tact. Is cleaning up the entire city a requirement for him to stop being Arrow or can he retire with there still being crime but the police have it much more in hand? It’s not like he couldn’t become Arrow again if needed, but if he decides to stay a family man as well hasn’t he earned that right?
How would you feel if the series ended with Oliver not being the Arrow anymore? A B- good episode. It was better than ok, but set up plots & the chance if Laurel is dead & this is how she went out, debating what to do & not really showing her skills fully (she had good scenes but they were a taste of what she can do), it’s not great or B+ good to me.
Some blog post comments…
“and the fact that Laurel still considers him her first love. Or true love? I still need to rewatch the episode for the details.” – I thought she said “true”; I’m interested to hear the takes on this because as someone who’s only seen season 4 I didn’t feel Laurel cared that way for him, if anything the events with Samantha reenforced her correctness in not getting back together with Oliver. If Oliver was the love of Laurel’s life wouldn’t she have fought harder for him while he was still just flirting with Felicity? I can respect Laurel never saying anything while they were together, but hearing a comment like this just seems left field for me because given what I’ve heard about Laurel’s love for Tommy and what I’ve seen in S4 it just doesn’t add up. Yes I can believe she still cares for him and loves him on some level, but “love of my life” I don’t know. Was this just their way of nodding to the Black Canary/Green Arrow comic pairing or did it feel organic to where Laurel is now? I’d love to hear more thoughts on this!
“We knew a death was coming. To some, and many, it being Laurel was a shock.” – I was surprised by Laurel personally, but not totally due to the theories out there; still I’m not sure she is dead. Even if we get a flashback heavy episode next and see a box go in the ground I’m still going to say it could be a fake until shown otherwise because again if this was her exit I’m not 100% sold on liking it. To be her last episode I would hope for a heavy episode, she had heavy scenes but not the episode and certainly the prison fight was light on her and her abilities and the back and forth over what to do about the job…it just didn’t feel worthy I guess you could say. So again I’m hoping it’s a fake out for many reasons.
“He’s just Oliver. Does he live in The Bunker? I know I’m talking about something pretty small in the scheme of things, but the advice he directed to Laurel about pursuing the path she was originally on was poignant enough for me to want to see him rejoin the world. What other options does he have at this point?” – the small things are fun to think about as well! 🙂 As for other jobs for Oliver, Detective maybe so it can cover him being at scenes all the time or maybe he can bounce around as a chef at various restaurants in the city!
For those who may not have seen the article yet, http://www.thetvjunkies.com/arrow-laurel-death-eleven-fifty-nine/ .
I agree with many of their points such as their was more that could have been done with Laurel (such as being the hero in the light as just DA or doing a “Birds Of Prey” spin-off), it would be nice to see more female character represented, and I do debate Oliver being the love of Laurel’s life and understand how that could cheapen her story to some fans.